Imus

[rapuda]

Talk about an over-reaction. What Imus said went too far and was tacky, but he apologized numerous times. He agreed to meet with Sharpton, agreed to meet with the Rutgers girls, and has been suspended for two weeks. What else do people expect from him? Asking him to resign is just plain stupid. In all the press clips that I've seen, he looks embarrassed at what has happened, and he genuinely looks remorseful when he talks about the incident.
I don't understand why every time a white person says something about someone of color that there is such an outrage by the public. What about all the comedians of color that make fun of caucasion people? Where is the outrage there? Let's not forget that Imus is a talk show comedian. If a comedian of color made those remarks about Rutgers, nobody would've even noticed.
Imus has done enough to make amends for his actions. Anybody that wants more from him is just being vindictive.

[Eastside Bill]

My guess is that the person who posted this opinion about Don Imus is not a person of color.

[Ben]

Hi Eastside Bill,

Earlier today I was listening to a radio show that had African American callers with views similar to what Rapuda posted. I hope you don't stereotype all people of color as having the same opinion on the Imus situation.

[rapuda]

If you look at the majority of people protesting Imus, they are people of color. Those same people allow black artists and comedians to get away with what Imus did, and worse. It's without a doubt a double standard for one race to criticize another race for something that they allow their own race to do.
A quick story.
When I was a kid growing up in West Haven in the 70's, I had a friend who was black. We hung out, laughed together and joked around with each other as any middle school kid would do. Whenever I hung around him I would here other friends of his call him the N word and he in return would call them the N word back. They of course were black. I thought it was acceptible to use that word in jest with each other based on what I saw with them. So one day when I saw my friend I yelled to him "What up N". I only repeated what he and his friends were doing. I was his friend and didn't mean anything negative towards him, it was just a way of saying hello to him.
He got very upset with me. I asked him what was wrong. He said I couldn't call him the N word. I asked him why I couldn't when his black friends could. He said because your white. I said what do you mean? He said it was alright for his black friends to call him a N but not his white friends. I had no idea. I was completely confused. Our friendship was never the same again. We would say hi to each other when we saw each other, but the hanging out and joking around days were over. I called him the N word and that was that.
I never used that word again towards anyone. It amazes me however at how tolerant black america is towards black comedians and black music artists that choose to use that word in their music and shows. If the word is so hurtful and wrong to say and use, why allow them to do it? It's a double standard, just like what's happening to Imus is a double standard.

[JohnH]

There definatley is a double standard when it comes to what you can and cannot say based upon the color of your skin in this country.

Don Imus will be the Piñata for Rev. Al and Rev. Jesse for the next few weeks.

Remember when Bill & Hillary were getting over the Lewinsky issue and Rev. Jesse came round and spoke about their relationship.

"Face it, he is embarrassed by whatever happened, however one defines inappropriate, and Hillary's had to face the humiliation of it all," said Jackson, who met with the first family Sunday night and prayed with them. But Jackson said the couple is in love "and their marriage will survive this."

I wonder if Billy Graham went to speak to Rev. Jackson about Jessie's own issue a couple of months later.

[Eastside Bill]

Hi Eastside Bill,

Earlier today I was listening to a radio show that had African American callers with views similar to what Rapuda posted. I hope you don't stereotype all people of color as having the same opinion on the Imus situation.

Of course not, Ben, and I didn't say or allude to that, just a guess that the person who wrote that inital posting was not a person of color. No more, no less.

I do think this whole incident is making everyone look at race relations and "humor" based on insults and stereotypes. This was nothing new for Imus; it is his stock in trade. This just happened to get the attention of the mass media because of the comments extreme outrageouness and it took on a life of its own. His show has been canceled I'm sure only because of the exodus of advertisers. Had the advertisers stayed, so would he. However, I don't blame the advertisers who don't want to alienate their customer base by sticking by someone who has angered so many potential customers. The cancelation is all about $.

Bet you Imus ends up on satellite radio....

[jma]

It would take an extremely insightful white male to understand the pain of what Imus said. Considering while males haven't been oppressed, or considered second-class citizens, it's easy to dismiss this whole incident. While I don't agree with blacks making racist remarks towards whites, I understand it. (by the way, I'm white). When a member of an oppressed group lashes out at the oppressor, it's an act of defiance and a way to take back a bit of their power. When a white person makes racist remarks, it's a way to keep the oppressed down. I don't condone racist remarks from anyone, but I can understand where it comes from.

[rapuda]

To jma,
You brought up an excellent point. Black America feels oppressed.
It seems you think it's alright for black people to lash out because they're expressing their frustration at the man (white people), for keeping them down.
I feel when white people express their frustration at the double standards Black Americans have created, we're labeled as racist. We can't express an opinion or have dialogue in regards to race relations because we don't understand what it was like to be slaves or oppressed. I'm sure someone right now reading this thinks I'm racist. I'm sick and tired of hearing about oppression and slavery especially from the black youth of today. Knowbody under the age of 40 maybe even 50 can honestly say they understand slavery. You would have to have been a slave or been exposed to it to truly understand what it was like. When the Irish came over, they were oppressed and exploited. I don't hear Irish Americans crying about the past. When the Chinese came to California, they were oppressed and exploited. Who do you think built the railroads and worked in the mines? I don't hear Chinese Americans crying about oppression.
There will never be racial harmony in this country until Black America stops feeling oppressed. You are what you believe. If you keep telling yourself you're oppressed, or keep hearing it from black leaders (Sharpton), then you WILL be oppressed. You will be oppressed by your own self, not white america. The basic definition of oppress is, "to be kept down." Is our black culture keeping themselves down, thus being the oppressers? The definition of oppression is NOT, black people being kept down by white people. It is possible for ANY race to be oppressed by ANY other race. Just as it is possible for any race to be racist. You don't have to be white to be racist.
JMA,
Your comments are exactly why race relations are where they are today. Let me explain. According to what you wrote,
1. "White males have never been oppressed or treated as second class citizens." (research the Irish). What you are saying is black males are oppressed and are second class citizens.
2. You understand black people making racist remarks towards whites. Why? Do you feel like an oppresser, which would make you feel guilty, thus causing you to understand the oppressed making a comment towards you?
3. You say, "When a member of an oppressed group lashes out at the oppressor, it's an act of defiance and a way to take back a bit of their power." What you're saying is that black people are an oppressed group and they are lashing out at white people because white people are oppressing them. You're saying white people have the power and blacks lash out to get a bit of the power.
4. You say, "When a white person makes a racist remark it's a way to keep the oppressed down." What you're saying is when a white person makes a racist remark it's to keep the black people down. You are saying that white america is oppressing black america.
5. You say you understand where racist remarks come from. Does that mean you understand black people making racist remarks as well as white people? Or can you only understand it from black people?
Any black american that doesn't feel oppressed (there are plenty) would shake their head at your remarks. Only an oppressed feeling person could understand your comments. I certainly don't understand them.
I do believe black people are still discriminated against in certain aspects of life. But they are not as a whole oppressed by this country. If that were the case we would not have one of the richest woman in america be black. (Opra)
We would not have a black woman in a high office position. (Rice)
Powell was also in a high position. Obama is running for president. We finally had two black head coaches in the NFL. And there are others.
Do we need to correct problems with race issues in this country? Yes we do. Are there still problems to be solved? Yes there are. Is it constructive to solving these problems and issues by constantly saying you are oppressed? By using your color as a reason for failure or a lack of success? No it's not.
I agree with Eastside Bill. This incident with Imus has caused dialogue in regards to race relations. That could be a good thing. Time will tell.

[Eastside Bill]

It would take an extremely insightful white male to understand the pain of what Imus said. Considering while males haven't been oppressed, or considered second-class citizens, it's easy to dismiss this whole incident. While I don't agree with blacks making racist remarks towards whites, I understand it. (by the way, I'm white). When a member of an oppressed group lashes out at the oppressor, it's an act of defiance and a way to take back a bit of their power. When a white person makes racist remarks, it's a way to keep the oppressed down. I don't condone racist remarks from anyone, but I can understand where it comes from.

Exactly, jma! You hit the proverbial nail right on the head. Well put.

[jma]

Tell you what Rapuda. You get in touch with Oprah, Powell, and Obama, and ask them if they've experienced racism. I'll speak to my close friends and family, and get "real-life" opinions. In the meantime, I'll keep working on tolerance and understanding, as everyone should.

[rapuda]

jma,
I didn't say that racism doesn't exist. I know it does. I'm just saying racism is carried out by many people of different colors and backgrounds. I want people to understand that. Until EVERYONE understands that anyone can be a racist, tolerance and understanding can't happen.
It would be awesome if people could be treated equally regardless of color, gender, or religion. That will require dialogue, time and patience.

[jma]

Rapuda, you're right. I honestly think that even though we may have disagreed on a few points, it takes courage to post our views. Maybe we managed to get some other people talking, too! Can't hurt!

[gunderstone]

There is a local web broadcast starting on http://sullivanoneonone.com/ in ten minutes (Sunday 4/15/2007 - 8PM) with Record-Journal Vice-President and Managing Editor Ralph Tomaselli if anyone wants to listen in and call in with their comments.

It's free for anyone to listen to; just head over to the site

[gunderstone]

I forgot to mention - once the webcast is over (like it is now) you can still listen to the archived webcast on the site anytime



There is a local web broadcast starting on http://sullivanoneonone.com/ in ten minutes (Sunday 4/15/2007 - 8PM) with Record-Journal Vice-President and Managing Editor Ralph Tomaselli if anyone wants to listen in and call in with their comments.

It's free for anyone to listen to; just head over to the site

[eds]

To me, racism is taking overt action against an individual simply because they are of a race one does not prefer. It's interesting when one looks at Africa where one tribe wars with another tribe and yet all are African but differ in some specific way. When you look at Europe you have differences between the Irish and the English, between the English and the French. Yet all are European.

So what we have here is a larger issue of differentiation and people's reaction to that. People differentiate themselves in more than one way. Those who do not share a specific differentiation can sometimes be accosted by those who do.

When one teaches tolerance, one teaches not to take overt action against anyone for reasons which involve differentiation. When one starts to teach tolerance, however, one usually ventures into acceptance.

Acceptance means that one agrees with a particular differentiation a collective group holds. If a man chooses not to associate with another man for any reason of differentiation, then that man has the right to do that. We all have the right to pursue happiness, and that includes associating with like-minded individuals on whatever differentiation that links them together. Too often we engage in the business of acceptance of differentiations which force one to change their opinions. Forcing opinion change is never good business.

We engage in teaching acceptance when we talk about cultural awareness. It is as if to say that when one understands the diverse nature of people's differentiations, that one would somehow change their opinion of a certain differentiating characteristic. Embracing diversity is not the same as tolerance. Tolerance does not involve internalization whereas when you embrace something you internalize it. You accept it. Forcing that change should never happen. Voluntary change is what we strive for, but brow-beating people until they change is not acceptable. We should not be enterprising opinion changers.

What we need to do is to teach that overt action taken against any differentiated group is not acceptable. Overt action includes expressing offensive words and should be dscouraged in mixed company. One can certainly have an opinion, but in mixed company, one does not appear uncouth. Keep it to yourself if it may offend. One should not tell off-color jokes in mixed company for the same reasons. Proper gentlemen never risk being offensive.

Do I think Don Imus is racist? I have no idea. I cannot form that opinion simply from one off-color remark. I think what Don Imus said was in poor taste. But then again, his radio show, and several others, engage in this type of behavior which a majority of people seem to enjoy. It is this majority which created the atmosphere which led to these remarks. It is this majority who should look at themselves when they ask "Is Don Imus a racist?". The proper question then being, "Should I continue my support for this type of entertainment if the end result is hurt and anger? Who really is to blame for this incident?"

[Ben]

Thanks for the link, Gunderstone. John Sullivan is a great broadcaster!