Big Business vs the little guy

[jma]

I keep seeing letters to the editor backing up Marc & Sharon Rosen. I think it's great, but where are the ones backing up the other home-town businesses. Why the hell do we need another pharmacy at East Main & Paddock?? Did the City think what might happen to Hancock's Pharmacy? Does CVS or Walgreen's donate to local little league teams, fundraisers, schools, etc? NO!!! Greg Hancock is always willing to help out the town. Why isn't the town willing to do the same? The way the City is going, there won't be any private businesses left.

[stellas mom]

I keep seeing letters to the editor backing up Marc & Sharon Rosen. I think it's great, but where are the ones backing up the other home-town businesses. Why the hell do we need another pharmacy at East Main & Paddock?? Did the City think what might happen to Hancock's Pharmacy? Does CVS or Walgreen's donate to local little league teams, fundraisers, schools, etc? NO!!! Greg Hancock is always willing to help out the town. Why isn't the town willing to do the same? The way the City is going, there won't be any private businesses left.
I guess the reason we need another pharmacy is that they make money. Lots of money. The pharmaceutical industry is keeping this country going. Look at all the ads on TV for prescription drugs!

The city needs the tax dollars. There are not enough people contributing tax dollars living in the city anymore, unfortunately. There are a lot of people on assistance and not enough making a living and paying taxes to support those programs, so it's going to squeeze out a lot of the little guys...it breaks my heart to see it, but it's where we're going now. God bless Greg Hancock and all of the other "little guys" who are always there to lend a hand. It takes a village...

[jma]

That's my point! The village is what makes a community. Not another impersonal:mad: congomerate, just here for our cash. I would expect the city to at least make a half-assed effort to try and protect the home-grown businesses, instead of helping them get destroyed!! They offer all kinds of tax incentives to attrack business--what are they offering to the businesses already here??

[stagehog01]

What about us hard working tax payers. Stop the tax incentives to big chain stores, and start making them pay thier fair share.:mad:

[gunderstone]

You're not going to like this but business MAKE towns money via tax collection even at "tax break" rates and (most) homes cost towns and that is true whether it’s a big chain store or a little guy.

As an example, I moved into my newest home three years ago when my son was born and I now have a daughter. I pay about $4,000.00 a year to my town in property tax - assuming all things being equal (that my taxes only move up at the pace of inflation and that costs to the town only did the same) over 20 years I would pay $80,000.00 in taxes. In order to educate my two kids in the public school system for 12 years (not counting Kindergarten) it's going to cost about $9,000.00 per year, per child so that totals $216,000.00 (again, all numbers static - we can assume that as costs rise so do my taxes so in my example everything will remain constant.

What that means is that taxes need to be collected on my house for 54 years to break even

In many cases, people live in a home on the order of 20 to 30 years and may move and a new family moves in and repeats this cycle over and over in a home BEFORE a given house hold generates a break even point from tax collection to a town.

There are houses that are owned for many years by childless couples and depending on the time threshold allow the town to "get ahead" from their tax collection and there are also multifamily homes that consistently have families in them that do nothing but multiply this drain on a town 2X and 3X or more.

My point here is to simply allow you to consider why a town is more apt to give a tax break to a large business at first - it’s to get them in to a town's tax base for the long haul.

The fact of the matter is that big businesses ARE only here for your hard earned money so spend it wisely and shop from the little guys when you can - they deserve your business more than the big retailers do but let us also be honest too - as it was mentioned the "impersonal conglomerate, just here for our cash" has no allegiance to our towns and our townspeople really have no allegiance to them either but they are always welcome because most people would rather patronize the BIG store to save 10 cents on items rather than support the little guy; this is exactly how and why places like Wal-Mart trash the competition and remain the only business left standing when the dust settles.

So when you ask why things are the way they are, remember - the consumer is the driver; we set the things in motion that generate the end result. If we patronized the little stores the towns that need to buff up their tax base would be offering the breaks to them because a town would want and need more of them to keep the people happy but that is not what happens.

Of course it is true that without residents there is no town but at some point the number of wanted/needed/desired townspeople tips and it's more "important" to begin to pull in business and industry to offer those people jobs and the city or town a growing tax base.

Consider, if there were no really large business or industry in your town or city and it cost $9,000.00 per child to educate them and if the average number of children were 1.1 per household (when you averaged across what small business a town might have and all the childless homes, etc) and if you consider that the 1.1 number remained constant (as one child leaves the school system another begins to attend the following year) your taxes would need to be at least $10,000.00 JUST to support the cost of educating the kids unless a tuition system was put into place (charging the homes for the education of their children while in the school system and then allowing their taxes to more simply reflect the remaining costs of running a town)

Just some things to think about

[Tino3]

Wow! You've got me thinking!

[eds]

Like the previous posting mentions, the consumer is the driver.

We all have bills to pay. Rich or poor. We all have limited resources, no matter if you make a million dollars or one dollar, you can't spend more than you earn for very long without consequences.

Rich or poor, no one likes wasting their money. I want reasonable prices. I want selection. I want knowledgeable sales people. And I want service. Whichever business gives me these things gets my money. It's my money. I worked hard for it. I don't find wasting my money on lousy service and products a very productive activity. I don't find value in that.

I get great service from the big blue home improvement center. I get lousy service from their big orange competitor. So where do I go? Big blue. Not less than 10 people approached me in the new one in Wallingford asking to help me. These people walked and talked with me and answered every question I had in detail. Try finding a single person at big orange to help you.

I need stores that are open on weekends. Some little guys are only open during the week or with limited hours on Saturday. I go to whomever is open when I need them to be.

For example, I buy a lot of wines and Belgian beer. I want to be helped by a sommelier with decades of experience in these items. I want the person who is helping me to know the difference between a pouilly fuisse and pouilly fume. When I read about a wine and I want to try it, I want it in stock and on the shelves at my local shop. I have not found that service to any great degree in the local area.

Another example. When I go to the airport, I use a local Meriden-located limo service. I have a great relationship with them. They are a small local owned business as far as I know. They give the service I expect. Their drivers carry my baggage, open the doors, and treat me and my wife very well. Nice conversation too. So I continue to use them. I tip the driver well for top-notch service, not because I am philanthropic. Their prices are reasonable for the service they offer. I stick with them, not because I am loyal to them for loyalty's sake. Its is not because I find patronizing a local establishment valuable. It is because I find their service to be valuable. When that no longer is the case, I will go elsewhere.

For me its about getting the best service I can for my money. If that means a little guy, great! If it's the big guy, that's fine with me too. Bottom line, I do not give my money to an establishment just because I feel sorry for them that the so-called big guys are pushing them out. The only matter of importance is how well they meet my and their other customer's needs. If they can meet enough people's needs with their services, they'll remain in business. If not, they won't.

Look at this way. Do you think for one second, that the local wine store that's in this battle, would provide me with a case of Chateau Meyre Bordeaux if I didn't pay for it? They are in business to make a profit. And I am looking for a fine product. Where our needs meet we have a deal. He gives me what I want and I give him what he wants. If either side is not forthcoming in that endeavor, then we have no deal.

Sam Walton started out as a small guy. Through diligence and hard work he's a big guy now. Bill Gates started out in his garage. They gave the people what they wanted. Now they are rich. That's called capitalism.

[gunderstone]

I am of the opinion that Sam Walton would cringe today at what his company has become.

That aside, all good points indeed.

"I want reasonable prices. I want selection. I want knowledgeable sales people. And I want service" - so do many people and like you I am one of them - I want a MIX of all. I am sure you'd have to agree that there are many that ONLY want one of these things and GENERALLY that is JUST lower price.

I know of many local hardware stores that used to be open a full day on Saturday and a partial day on Sunday that had a decent selection of items and gave service and were quite knowledgeable to the point where they'd embarrass any TWO people at Blue and Orange today combined.

I say "used to be" because they are now "no more" they could not discount their price enough to compete with the big stores and all the service and knowledge in the world will not keep you open against ANY big box store whose network of profitable stores can offset the losses some of their stores incur while they drive the local shops out of business (which, once they successfully do then become profitable as their prices come back up and more in line)

If you think Blue and Orange sitting across the street from one another are going to promote competitiveness and keep prices low I believe you'll be disappointed - if they are the only two stores within 10 miles they'll dictate price

I remember when Wal-Mart was coming to town "what a great addition to the local consumer market this is going to be" was what was said - "the added competition will be better prices for the consumer and more choices".

They are now the only real choice left within 10 miles; otherwise it’s off to Kohl’s with slightly less choices and somewhat more pricey items or off you go to North Haven or Meriden to Target which generally means your time and travel expense is going to offset the effort so most don't bother. So now you WILL buy what they have. If what you want isn't carried there you're going to have to do without or go somewhere somewhat farther away to get it OR change your buying to what they have there. (By the way, that allows them to further dictate pricing to that manufacturer - keep cranking out those widgets but by the way, we're now going to pay you ten cents less per widget and we're not going to pass that savings along - we're going to keep it).

That is NOT choice and it is not a real cost savings.

The consumer ends up going to Wal-Mart and perpetuating the problem that they partially caused themselves and by never breaking free it will continue to be this way.

I do not shop there and there are other folks I know that don't either but we are clearly in the minority and unless the majority chases something other than the almighty dollar then it will be this way

Don't think for one minute that while Bradlees and Caldor were up the hill and Super KMART was down the road that Wal-Mart wasn't bleeding green - they were; now that two of these business have shuttered their doors and the other did an organized retreat away from Wal-Mart (if you noticed when KMART reorganized in Chapter 11, they closed up just about every store that directly competed with a Wal-Mart). KMART has done alright to date and buying up Sears has added additional support but they will probably fold the next time.

Ames bought out Zayre stores and then due to that fast expansion and the recession of years ago they had to reorganize under chapter 11 and they pulled out fairly well until Wal-Mart came in and started the beginning of the end for them. The next time times got tight they opted to close than fight.

Yes, I agree, it is the nature of the beast and it is capitalism at its best but let's also call it what it is additionally - the ability (and some would say unfair ability) to leverage and average their stronger stores profitability to allow the losses in areas where the competition needs to be eliminated.

Bill Gates was mentioned here as well and I tread lightly as I work for them but every time Microsoft pulls a monopolistic stunt or something that is deemed anti-competitive our company gets hauled into court for it but you never see Wal-Mart or a big oil company end up there

Tell me - with oil companies raking in 10 BILLION DOLLARS OF NET PROFIT EVERY THREE MONTHS on the backs of millions of consumers that cannot go (largely) without consuming their product how they do not fit within a category like this?

Makes me wonder why sometimes indeed.

[catnap]

Good Points.

I avoid Walmart like the plaque...but I find myself very fustrated when trying to find someplace to go for a quick-pickup of house-hold items.

then I remember Family Dollar Store - One on the west Side - one on the East (don't know how long that one will be there) and one in Wallingford in the old K-Mart plaza.

There's Odd Lots and Ocean state JOb lot...but I really miss the old Caldors.. and the Stars store, Ames and Bradlees.

100% percent avoidance of shopping at Walmart, is almost impossible. Ticksme off - I feel like my choices have been taken from me.

[eds]

I can definitely see another side to this issue. Capitalism isn't perfect.

Monopolies can be broken by boycotts. If we all decided to boycott Blue or Orance guys or Sam Walton's store we would change the playing field. If we all decided to stop buying gas for not just one day but for one year we would make a change. Boycotts are very hard to do however in reality. They know it. I could not do it myself. Its a tough situation to be in.

The person who finds the way to invent a new source of energy will be richer than any who came before.

I do not have all the answers. I am in this like everyone else is. What can we do really?

[Wine Guys]

OK…
Let’s see what we have here…
We have no less than 8 Retail Outlets mentioned by NAME!
Advertising???
I thought that wasn’t allowed here…
Maybe you should support the little guy. I will go to Tru-Value before I go to Home Depot… And the $ Stores ROCK!
I always try to support the Hometown Team!
So if you need a bottle of wine… Support the Smaller... Friendlier stores in your hometown!
NO ADVERTISING ALLOWED!

[eds]

I was good. I didn't use actual names. However, I don't think these companies are benefiting from free advertising on this site. People already know who they are.

I would like to add that I have noticed the quality of WM :) is going down, down, down. At this point I will not shop there if I can shop in other places. I have found they do not carry the brands I want in clothing.

I have stopped shopping at the Big Orange Improvement center altogether. I will not shop at SR&Co. or JCP either. I still go to the Big Blue Improvement Center though not for lumber. L&B is the place for good lumber plus delivery. They also carry unfinished lumber I can plane myself.

And yes I will definitely be going to a certain wine store the next time I need the vino. :D You seem to be a knowledgeable sommelier.

[CMT]

OK…
Let’s see what we have here…
We have no less than 8 Retail Outlets mentioned by NAME!
Advertising???
I thought that wasn’t allowed here…
Maybe you should support the little guy. I will go to Tru-Value before I go to Home Depot… And the $ Stores ROCK!
I always try to support the Hometown Team!
So if you need a bottle of wine… Support the Smaller... Friendlier stores in your hometown!
NO ADVERTISING ALLOWED!

You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between advertising and the course of general discussion. We have no problem with people innocently discussing businesses and their honest feelings about them, but we absolutely draw the line at a business owner signing up here to promote/SPAM the forum with their business, and then prompting friends to sign up to do the same. Discussing a store is fine. It is not fine when an employee of that store signs up to do the same with the intent of drumming up business for themselves at the cost of our bandwidth.

If you are honestly saying that you cannot see the difference between these two situations, then I will kindly ask you to find another forum's intelligence to insult. The SPAM process is specious, duplicitous, and it will not be tolerated here. Neither will constant nuisances and habitual line-crossers. This has nothing to do with engaging in healthy discussions concerning local businesses as long as the discourse is free of libel. For most people, discerning between the two is an elementary concept.

This thread is done. PM me if you feel the need to pursue it.