Letter of the week, 10/27/08: WHAT retirement?

[David]

What retirement?
Editor:

Sadly, I see all around me a generation that will have worked all their lives, only to be faced with spending their “golden years” in poverty. With the rampant acquisition of companies by larger conglomerates and the reductions in workforce that follow, people are forced out of their jobs before they can accrue any real pension benefits; they also often have to accept lesser positions with other companies, thus reducing their income.

Often, they find themselves moving from one company to the next, only to have their new employers acquired and finding themselves going through the same cycle, sometimes over and over again. When they reach retirement age, they face trying to survive on woefully inadequate Social Security benefits and paltry pensions, while faced with escalating costs for health insurance and health care.

In the midst of this, what little savings they might have put into 401K’s are being decimated by the fluctuations in the stock market, and their cost of living is skyrocketing due to energy and other costs. Compounding this travesty are increases in local property taxes that far exceed the rate of inflation. They live out the remainder of their lives fearing the day when they will have depleted all of their savings and must give up their homes and go on public assistance.

And all the while, these people who formed the foundation of our society and economy have become disenfranchised as far as our politicians are concerned. The saddest part of this whole scenario is that people who worked all their lives and earned a comfortable retirement now often hope that they do not live long after they retire, so that they can die with dignity instead of in poverty.

When will our political candidates and parties begin to show some concern for these people?
JIM KRUPP, WALLINGFORD

[Bustopher Jones]

We can spend $700 Billion to bail out crooks and speculators, but we can't afford universal health care and adequate incomes for retirees. What's wrong with this picture?

[arahant]

We can spend $700 Billion to bail out crooks and speculators, but we can't afford universal health care and adequate incomes for retirees. What's wrong with this picture?

Don't forget a very large portion of that bailout is for individuals that made unwise financial decisions by getting in way over their heads. There is plenty of blame to go around but some of it belongs in our own neighborhoods or as the politicians like to say "On Main Street".

[Drifter]

I find it very unfortunate that so many people spend so much time and effort trying to drag other people's wages,etc. down instead of trying to bring the rest up!The outrage over auto workers getting a pension that you can actually live a decent life on ,just infuriates other people.The only people who don't like unions are those who never worked in one.In fact, I've got more than one friend who bad mouthed them all the time.Then,they got hired by a company that has one and I can tell you,well,I'm sure you know the rest.We all need to move forward,not backwards!

[Snakebite]

The intent of unions were to ensure safety, fair, equitable wages and benefits. They are now, bankrupting companies and taxpayers.
From the top is excessive compensation, which is also being scrutinized. When companies are failing and going to taxpayers for assistance what would you expect?

Bring wages up from the bottome is noble, but where does this money come from, it has to come from somewhere.

The states Prevailing wage laws and Binding Arbitration are fine examples of the eventual downfall of this states union power.

[iwantwallingfordbetter]

I find it very unfortunate that so many people spend so much time and effort trying to drag other people's wages,etc. down instead of trying to bring the rest up!The outrage over auto workers getting a pension that you can actually live a decent life on ,just infuriates other people.The only people who don't like unions are those who never worked in one.In fact, I've got more than one friend who bad mouthed them all the time.Then,they got hired by a company that has one and I can tell you,well,I'm sure you know the rest.We all need to move forward,not backwards!


Well stated

[wallyworld resident]

What good is it to have a job that pays wages that one can't survive on? A single person in this state would have to earn at least $40,000 a year to survive and pay for the basics: housing, food, a car plus insurance and taxes, and that person would probably not have much left over to save let alone invest in an IRA or 401K. That translates to about $20/hr.
Thanks to the unions, many people have health insurance and pensions to add to their wages. I am a union member who has no guilt feelings about my benefits, because in return for the wages I earned I have helped to make the company that I work for very substantial profits over the years.
What gets me is that the boards of directors in a growing number of companies never seem to suffer when their high salaries and bad decisions result in lower profits, layoffs, and bankruptcies. When times are bad BOTH SIDES must make sacrifices to ensure their own survival. But it always seems that those who are barely on the edge of survival have more to lose than those who make 6 or 7 figure salaries year after year.

[Snakebite]

The proud or protect the lazy and listless ?. If we could fire the unproductive, dogging it for Overtime, Bathroom waiting line union personel, maybe we could make schedule and money.
You should tread lightly when talking union pride.

Oh, excuse me are you ready to yell STEWARD! "the foreman is offending me" I want to file a greivance.

[RC12L4]

Having worked closely with union people for a number of years I'd have to say they are some of the laziest, self centered whiners I've ever had to endure. None of them would make it in a non union shop becaused they'd actually have to perform.

"Why don't you make more widgets so we can sell more?"

"Because I made my 100 widgets for the day now I'm going to play ping pong"

[flatrat]

Having worked closely with union people for a number of years I'd have to say they are some of the laziest, self centered whiners I've ever had to endure. None of them would make it in a non union shop becaused they'd actually have to perform.

"Why don't you make more widgets so we can sell more?"

"Because I made my 100 widgets for the day now I'm going to play ping pong"

What a sweeping generalization. You exude so much respect for your workers, you must of been one hell of a manager. What a class guy. Managers with attitudes like that are exactly why we need unions.

If it weren't for unions, people would be working in the same conditions that people in Asia are working in now. The world is full of horror stories of non union working conditions and sweat shops. This is even more so during Republican administrations when the government emasculates regulatory agencies like OSHA. It was the sweat shop that gave rise to the labor movement. Many of the workplace safety rules in place today are the result of collective bargaining.

Unions protect worker safety, and keep management honest. If you are disciplined or terminated, the union will make management follow due process and ensure a fair hearing.

People working in a non union environment are at the constant whim and mercy of biased and dishonest management. An "at will" employee can be terminated at any time for any reason. You can be replaced at your job by your manager's strange nephew, or the boss's kid.

Union rules ensure that management cant make that inexperienced "new kid" operate that complex and dangerous piece of equipment, when the licensed operator get s sick or injured.

Unions fight for honest and fair market wages for their workers.

March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Circuit City Stores Inc., the second-largest U.S. electronics retailer after Best Buy Co., fired 3,400 of its highest-paid hourly workers and will hire replacements willing to work for less.

The company said its eliminating jobs that paid ``well above'' market rates. Those who were fired can apply for the lower pay, company spokesman Bill Cimino said today. He declined to give the wages of the fired workers or the new hires.

The job cuts are ``one of the most brazen examples of corporate America run amuck,'' said Greg Tarpinian, executive director of Change to Win, which represents seven unions and about 6 million workers. ``It's workers as disposable commodities, put in and put out based on whatever happens to the stock price.''

Of course unions also cramp the style of lazy, dishonest and incompetent management, so they are a pain to them.

Labor unions have led the fight to keep American jobs in America, while management has sought ways to maximize their profits by scurrying overseas at every opportunity, or by hiring illegal immigrant labor.


Our standard of living today would be much worse without the history of the labor movement.

[Drifter]

Having worked closely with union people for a number of years I'd have to say they are some of the laziest, self centered whiners I've ever had to endure. None of them would make it in a non union shop becaused they'd actually have to perform.

"Why don't you make more widgets so we can sell more?"

"Because I made my 100 widgets for the day now I'm going to play ping pong"
THOSE STATEMENTS ARE NOT EVEN WORTH A REPLY.YOU ONLY SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE WITH A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT.IT'S OBVIOUS YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN AN AUTO ASSEMBLY PLANT.

[wallyworld resident]

There are lazy, unproductive managers too who wouldn't know a bad widget if they saw one. I've worked for one or two in my time. One of them used to play video games on his PC while one of my coworkers slept at his desk not 10 feet away. I wouldn't defend either one of them. There are rules and guidelines in place to discipline or fire bad workers but this particular manager in question was too lazy to bother doing his job. He was hurting the company too but got away with it and is still employed there.
Then again there are a few good managers who can be fired for going against their superiors. They have no job security/protection, forced overtime with no compensation, fewer health benefits, and the headaches of running a business. I salute them for doing what is sometimes a difficult job but I wouldn't want to trade places with them.
My conscience is clear. You can't say that all union workers are bad just because of a few bad examples. There are good and bad workers on both sides.

[RC12L4]

What a sweeping generalization. You exude so much respect for your workers, you must of been one hell of a manager. What a class guy. Managers with attitudes like that are exactly why we need unions.

If it weren't for unions, people would be working in the same conditions that people in Asia are working in now. The world is full of horror stories of non union working conditions and sweat shops. This is even more so during Republican administrations when the government emasculates regulatory agencies like OSHA. It was the sweat shop that gave rise to the labor movement. Many of the workplace safety rules in place today are the result of collective bargaining.

Unions protect worker safety, and keep management honest. If you are disciplined or terminated, the union will make management follow due process and ensure a fair hearing.

People working in a non union environment are at the constant whim and mercy of biased and dishonest management. An "at will" employee can be terminated at any time for any reason. You can be replaced at your job by your manager's strange nephew, or the boss's kid.

Union rules ensure that management cant make that inexperienced "new kid" operate that complex and dangerous piece of equipment, when the licensed operator get s sick or injured.

Unions fight for honest and fair market wages for their workers.

March 28 (Bloomberg) -- Circuit City Stores Inc., the second-largest U.S. electronics retailer after Best Buy Co., fired 3,400 of its highest-paid hourly workers and will hire replacements willing to work for less.

The company said its eliminating jobs that paid ``well above'' market rates. Those who were fired can apply for the lower pay, company spokesman Bill Cimino said today. He declined to give the wages of the fired workers or the new hires.

The job cuts are ``one of the most brazen examples of corporate America run amuck,'' said Greg Tarpinian, executive director of Change to Win, which represents seven unions and about 6 million workers. ``It's workers as disposable commodities, put in and put out based on whatever happens to the stock price.''

Of course unions also cramp the style of lazy, dishonest and incompetent management, so they are a pain to them.

Labor unions have led the fight to keep American jobs in America, while management has sought ways to maximize their profits by scurrying overseas at every opportunity, or by hiring illegal immigrant labor.


Our standard of living today would be much worse without the history of the labor movement.

I assume you're a union worker.

[Drifter]

You hit the nail right on the head.I wanted to say the same kind of think but guys like that aren't even worth my time.They know it all!One day on the line would have them curled up in the corner of the sh*t house like a bad accident.In fact,I'll bet the guy's at work right now, making all kinds of money for his employer spewing CRAP on this forum.Good job pal!

[Snakebite]

Having worked closely with union people for a number of years I'd have to say they are some of the laziest, self centered whiners I've ever had to endure. None of them would make it in a non union shop becaused they'd actually have to perform.

"Why don't you make more widgets so we can sell more?"

"Because I made my 100 widgets for the day now I'm going to play ping pong"

RC, you have lost in the greivance. You will now have now have to go and apologize verbally and in writing. Please wait till he closes his newspaper before you start your apology.
Remember its " when you get around to it, maybe you could ...." we can not offend these hard working pillars on society.

[RC12L4]

THOSE STATEMENTS ARE NOT EVEN WORTH A REPLY.YOU ONLY SHOW YOUR IGNORANCE WITH A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT.IT'S OBVIOUS YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN IN AN AUTO ASSEMBLY PLANT.

Right, because the only place unions reside are in auto assembly plants. :rolleyes:

[RC12L4]

THIS IS THE LAST THING I'M GOING TO SAY ON THIS.THAT STATEMENT IS A DIRECT INSULT TO ME AND MY FAMILY.MY FATHER ,WHO DIED LAST YEAR,WORKED FOR GM FOR 35 YEARS.HE WAS THE HARDEST WORKING,MOST DEDICATED COMPANY MAN THERE COULD BE.HE DID NOTHING HALF- ASSED OR HALF- HEARTED.I CAN REMEMBER AS A KID HE WAS ALWAYS WORKING TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR HIS WIFE AND THREE KIDS.TWELVE HOURS A DAY SIX DAYS AWEEK.WHAT EVER IT TOOK.HE WAS 100% UNION AND 100% COMPANY.DON'T JUDGE EVERYONE BY A FEW!I HOPE SOME DAY YOUR KIDS WILL BE AS PROUD OF YOU AS I AM OF HIM!FROM STATEMENTS LIKE YOURS,I DON'T HOLD MUCH HOPE.

You're right, maybe Toyota should get a union going so they can lead the way in the auto industry, oh wait already are.

:rolleyes:

PS. Using caps and pounding on your keyboard doesn't make your point any more valid.

[flatrat]

I assume you're a union worker.


You sure do assume a lot. No, I am one of those "at will" employees. Prior to that I spent 25+ years in management.

Of course their are lazy dishonest union workers just as there are lazy dishonest managers. Lets avoid the broads assumptions and generalizations. The real world is much more complex that Bushworld.

If corporate America were honest and moral, there would be no need for unions. That said, there are many companies, large and small that thrive in a non union environment because they treat their workers fairly and with respect.

One size does not fit all.

I do not know you personally, but you come across in your posts as a very mean spirited person.

[RC12L4]

You sure do assume a lot. No, I am one of those "at will" employees. Prior to that I spent 25+ years in management.

Of course their are lazy dishonest union workers just as there are lazy dishonest managers. Lets avoid the broads assumptions and generalizations. The real world is much more complex that Bushworld.

If corporate America were honest and moral, there would be no need for unions. That said, there are many companies, large and small that thrive in a non union environment because they treat their workers fairly and with respect.

One size does not fit all.

I do not know you personally, but you come across in your posts as a very mean spirited person.

25+ years in management? So you were the enemy.

[Drifter]

25+ years in management? So you were the enemy.
UNBELIEVABLE!You are funny.Not very smart,but funny."That's because the only place unions reside are in assembly plants"That was beautiful!.Proves my point exactly.No clue at all.;)

[Snakebite]

The conversation has been about Manufacturing unions, and the spewing of rhetoric from the Union leader handbook.
Lets have the State unions, they work the hardest at justifing their jobs and creating nonsense metrics, charts and graphs. All levels, not just unions competing to make themselves look relevant.
They are the only group, that when the governor tried to layoff a small fraction , had the sob story of the night on the news, while Pratt was laying off thousands and barely a mention.

[Drifter]

The conversation has been about Manufacturing unions, and the spewing of rhetoric from the Union leader handbook.
Lets have the State unions, they work the hardest at justifing their jobs and creating nonsense metrics, charts and graphs. All levels, not just unions competing to make themselves look relevant.
They are the only group, that when the governor tried to layoff a small fraction , had the sob story of the night on the news, while Pratt was laying off thousands and barely a mention.
Maybe RC12L4 can answer that.

[RC12L4]

UNBELIEVABLE!You are funny.Not very intelligent,but funny."That's because the only place unions reside are in assembly plants"That was beautiful!.Proves my point exactly.No clue at all.;)

Let me help you out a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[alwaysright]

When I owned my own business, we did work for a few places that had union strikes. It made me smile to cross that picket line.

[Drifter]

When I owned my own business, we did work for a few places that had union strikes. It made me smile to cross that picket line.
Do you mean to tell me they were still cleaning the sh*t bowls during a strike?Unbelievable!They must have been happy to see you too.Too bad about the business though,you know ,the when I owned, as in, use to,I use to own.use to.That scab stuff gets around.People start talking about you behind your back,their laughing,people are calling you names.pretty much your being shunned.Next thing you know,your like a leper.Before you know it,the business is gone.Your smile and pride turn to resentment and jealousy.Sad story.Maybe you might want to try selling pencils in front of the Apple store.

[alwaysright]

Do you mean to tell me they were still cleaning the sh*t bowls during a strike?Unbelievable!They must have been happy to see you too.Too bad about the business though,you know ,the when I owned, as in, use to,I use to own.use to.That scab stuff gets around.People start talking about you behind your back,their laughing,people are calling you names.pretty much your being shunned.Next thing you know,your like a leper.Before you know it,the business is gone.Your smile and pride turn to resentment and jealousy.Sad story.Maybe you might want to try selling pencils in front of the Apple store.


no problem with the business- sold it off to get the plum job I have now, you fool. no resentment, no jealousy- just a true mistrust of unions- and by trhe way- when you deal with management during a strike, you get CASH payments that do not get reported for taxes. So while those mis-guided union lemmings stood in the cold with silly signs, I made triple what I would if there was no strike. and to this day, I'll make a special trip to a place witha strike- just to cross the line. you call yourself the drifetr- drift this

[Drifter]

no problem with the business- sold it off to get the plum job I have now, you fool. no resentment, no jealousy- just a true mistrust of unions- and by trhe way- when you deal with management during a strike, you get CASH payments that do not get reported for taxes. So while those mis-guided union lemmings stood in the cold with silly signs, I made triple what I would if there was no strike. and to this day, I'll make a special trip to a place witha strike- just to cross the line. you call yourself the drifetr- drift this
Your so full of crap it's coming out your ears.You ARE an angry man.Oh,and by the way,there are laws about that tax thing.Hope no one see's this post who works for IRS and hunts you down like the dog you are.I guess you just like to see others pay their taxes so you can benefit!All for me and screw you.That's just the type of guy you are.Thanks for explaining.You can stop DIGGING now.Your hole is big enough.

[alwaysright]

Your so full of crap it's coming out your ears.You ARE an angry man.Oh,and by the way,there are laws about that tax thing.Hope no one see's this post who works for IRS and hunts you down like the dog you are.I guess you just like to see others pay their taxes so you can benefit!All for me and screw you.That's just the type of guy you are.Thanks for explaining.You can stop DIGGING now.Your hole is big enough.


can't hunt me down now- years ago and no proof. and I'm not angry anymore- WAS- then Obama won the election. and not to talk bad of the dead- but it's union workers that have made the crap product at GM. Small business owners cannot survive without skipping some of the taxes, but to a union boy like you- no one could explain it. You are obviously used to the steward telling yopu what to think.

BUY AMERICAN BUT KEEP THE WARANTEE_ YOU"LL NEED IT

[Snakebite]

Do you mean to tell me they were still cleaning the sh*t bowls during a strike?Unbelievable!They must have been happy to see you too.Too bad about the business though,you know ,the when I owned, as in, use to,I use to own.use to.That scab stuff gets around.People start talking about you behind your back,their laughing,people are calling you names.pretty much your being shunned.Next thing you know,your like a leper.Before you know it,the business is gone.Your smile and pride turn to resentment and jealousy.Sad story.Maybe you might want to try selling pencils in front of the Apple store.

There's something from yesteryear. Nobody is afraid of that scab stuff, you almost sound like a tired, old Republican hanging on to the good old days.
Maybe, you could go out and slash tires, throw eggs and walk in front of cars , yeehah.

Companies make money, you make money, its simple.
Talk about an overpaid bureaucracy, its Union management.

[flatrat]

Talk about an overpaid bureaucracy, its Union management.

Have you checked CEO salaries lately?

[Drifter]

There's something from yesteryear. Nobody is afraid of that scab stuff, you almost sound like a tired, old Republican hanging on to the good old days.
Maybe, you could go out and slash tires, throw eggs and walk in front of cars , yeehah.

Companies make money, you make money, its simple.
Talk about an overpaid bureaucracy, its Union management.
Must be striking a nerve.The rat's are coming out of the woodwork!Just as smart too."A tired old republican".Right, they have always been big on unions!Some people seem to take pride in being ignorant.Your fired too.Besides that,your account is empty.You have no more minutes.You may now talk amongst yourselves.Knock yourself out!

[Drifter]

can't hunt me down now- years ago and no proof. and I'm not angry anymore- WAS- then Obama won the election. and not to talk bad of the dead- but it's union workers that have made the crap product at GM. Small business owners cannot survive without skipping some of the taxes, but to a union boy like you- no one could explain it. You are obviously used to the steward telling yopu what to think.

BUY AMERICAN BUT KEEP THE WARANTEE_ YOU"LL NEED IT
I'll bet you shoplift for Christmas presents too.

[firefox]

no problem with the business- sold it off to get the plum job I have now, you fool. no resentment, no jealousy- just a true mistrust of unions- and by trhe way- when you deal with management during a strike, you get CASH payments that do not get reported for taxes. So while those mis-guided union lemmings stood in the cold with silly signs, I made triple what I would if there was no strike. and to this day, I'll make a special trip to a place witha strike- just to cross the line. you call yourself the drifetr- drift this
I can't believe that someone who cheats on their taxes is actually bragging about it.I guess they feel others should pay for them.To lump all small business owners in with him is outrageous.This person should be ashamed.It's obvious by his posts that he needs help.

[alwaysright]

I can't believe that someone who cheats on their taxes is actually bragging about it.I guess they feel others should pay for them.To lump all small business owners in with him is outrageous.This person should be ashamed.It's obvious by his posts that he needs help.


this is so much fun. find a topic. make wild claims. enrage normally dull people. that's why these boards are so much fun. but ask any small business owner if he rings in all the cash that comes across his counter- he'll either lie or blush and you'll have your answer- it's been going on for a hundred years

[Snakebite]

Must be striking a nerve.The rat's are coming out of the woodwork!Just as smart too."A tired old republican".Right, they have always been big on unions!Some people seem to take pride in being ignorant.Your fired too.Besides that,your account is empty.You have no more minutes.You may now talk amongst yourselves.Knock yourself out!

Stereotypes, its funny how often they are true. They derive in some form of reality and my friend you are classic.

[alwaysright]

I'll bet you shoplift for Christmas presents too.


I'm an atheist- so xmas is trash to me

[Snakebite]

I'm an atheist- so xmas is trash to me

Come on, you dont want the joy of a dying tree in your house. The good part is they mostly come from Canada , maybe we can cross a picket line together and laugh at the union zombies followers chanting "tree scabs"

[alwaysright]

Come on, you dont want the joy of a dying tree in your house. The good part is they mostly come from Canada , maybe we can cross a picket line together and laugh at the union zombies followers chanting "tree scabs"


I have no problem with my family following the pagan tradition of slaughtering a perfectly good tree, only to tart it up. The lights and tinsel actually almost trigger a flashback if you squint just right.
But this year my agnostic wife has decided that the tree will be one we can plant in spring. Just as I would have no problem watching jungle people shrink a head, I have no problem watching other cults like christians practice their xmas rituals. I just don't believe. and you are RIGHT- what will all the buy american people do about purchasing a Canadian tree? after all, some parts of canada can see russia, and that's too close to communism for us.

[flatrat]

I have no problem with my family following the pagan tradition of slaughtering a perfectly good tree, only to tart it up. The lights and tinsel actually almost trigger a flashback if you squint just right.
But this year my agnostic wife has decided that the tree will be one we can plant in spring. Just as I would have no problem watching jungle people shrink a head, I have no problem watching other cults like christians practice their xmas rituals. I just don't believe. and you are RIGHT- what will all the buy american people do about purchasing a Canadian tree? after all, some parts of canada can see russia, and that's too close to communism for us.

A surprising number of our culture's "christian" traditions have been taken from various pagan practices and celebrations. Don't tell Bill O"Reilly.

Happy Yule everyone.