A good paying job

[Frank]

This says it all. Have a good day.

Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m.
While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking,
he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG).
He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA),
designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA).
After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA)
he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO)
to see how much he could spend today.
After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN)
to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY)
and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB.
At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while.
He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL)
poured himself some wine (MADE IN FRANCE)
and turned on his TV! (MADE IN INDONESIA),
and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.....AMERICA.....

[Jack357]

Seems we all want a good paying job, but yet we want to to pay the lowest possible price for goods and services.

It just isn't going to work.

[gunderstone]

Jack357 is right on.

Everyone wants to earn six figure salaries and demands to get Wal-Mart type pricing everywhere.

Not going to happen.

The companies that want to sell their goods in Wal-Mart (because they want to expand their bottom line) are forced to come in at a unit cost WAY below what they currently make their products for. The only way for them to move 10x as many units is to find a way to become a supplier there is for them to find a way to lower that per unit cost.

Most companies try to do this by increasing worker productivity, holding down wage increases, allowing attrition (or worse layoffs) to absorb job roles (or to replace those workers if they are needed with younger, less experienced and lower paid employees) and so on

Once every ounce of fat has been trimmed from a company in the production of their widget that they wish to sell at Wal-Mart they often find that the cost per unit is still too high - they cannot produce it here and sell it in Wal-Mart at a profit.

So then that company must decide; they are seeing a decent return on all of their cost cutting and productivity gains over the recent period (in the example I am using here) and they could be content with that for some time but the inevitable always occurs. Either Wall Street forces their hand or a competitor that has already outsourced overseas and is closing in on their business seals the deal - that company too will be forced to off shore their production of that widget.

And all those people that used to have a great salary will now be out of work and chances are, the next job they get, will often pay less and offer less in benefits.

All for the "right" to earn as much as possible to buy things for a little as possible.

Someone called this the high cost of low price.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am all about getting a good deal but I would much rather get the proper value out of the dollar I spend (again, often something you cannot get today largely in part due to all of the offshoring and other efforts behind cranking out widgets with less or total lack of quality control).

But I don't want this at the expense of my neighbor and their job.

When I am potentially sending my neighbor's livelihood to China because I want a $37.99 DVD player then there's something wrong with me.

Now does this mean I go out and buy a $125.00 DVD player for no reason? Well, no. That's a foolish waste of money.

However, when I can, I do try to make smart buying decisions based on what I can research. Certain business practices of some large companies are so obvious that I don't need to do much research - I already don't shop at certain big box retailers because of their known practices of strong arming suppliers and I don't buy certain products from some companies no matter where they sell them as I know how they treat their employees.

I may not be able to solve the problem but I'm certainly not going to attribute to it whenever I can possibly avoid it and when you think about all the shopping choices out there - most of the times you can avoid it.

How would you feel if the $2.00 additional you saved on a big ticket item was the final straw on the back of some company and that forced them to pack up and go over seas - costing THOUSANDS of people their jobs?

How would you like it if it was the $2.00 I saved and it cost you yours?

Yes, again, I realize, I am just one consumer. But I can teach my kids the same values and perhaps in writing exchanges like this others can see my view point (and I can see theirs and learn more too) and together we can start effecting change.

It's slow and takes time and is generally not outwardly noticeable but change does occur.

Route 5 in Wallingford 20 years ago was nowhere built up the way it is today and it didn't really change overnight but it has changed.

So the question is - in 20 years will it look like Manchester or Route 1 in Milford or will it lock in the way it is?

That all depends on the hearts and minds of you the consumer because no one is going to take a chance on building a store on a big piece of commercial property on chance.

If you build it they will come often doesn't apply in the retail world. Market demand drives the need.

[wallyworld resident]

All well and good, but are there any DVD players made in the USA any more? Our corporate masters, assisted by our elected officials, have overseen the ruination of the American worker and this trend continues today. The working person in this country has been hurt by anti-union policies and also by NAFTA. The problem is that many of the overseas workers who make the goods filling WalMart will never have the same standard of living the the US worker is still somehow able to maintain. The countries in which they are employed don't have labor and environmental laws like the US does, so goods are cheaper to produce. But the corporations will not cut their prices to match, they will reap bigger profits. The result is widespread child labor, pollution, and worker injuries in the countries where the goods are produced. So go ahead and pay $200 for sneakers that cost very little to make, you are helping the process. Just remember the next time you hear that the employment level is going down it's because more and more people have to work two (or more) jobs to maintain a middle-class lifestyle.
The overseas workers' standard of living will improve as their earnings increase. This country now finds itself competing in a worldwide market for the same raw materials and the goods they produce where little competition existed not long ago. Our prices will continue to rise and our standard of living will, sadly, decline as these forces equalize.

[gunderstone]

Solid opinions to be sure wallyworld - thanks for adding to the thread; interesting.

I'll comment on some (and again these are my thoughts and opinions - I am sure everyone's vary):

"Are there any DVD players made in the USA anymore"

No, because consumers continued to demand to pay less for them and the only way they can be manufactured to meet that need was to off shore that process.

Now to be fair, I am sure that if everyone was WILLING to spend $300.00 for their DVD players that most of the companies would outsource their production and / or take the whole thing overseas but that's the whole point too - no one will pay $300.00 for a DVD player when they can get a moderately featured one for $99.00 or a bare bones model for $39.99

So I ask you (and believe me, if you cut my arm I'd bleed red, white and blue), if a US based company made DVD players and paid their employees decent living wages here on US soil and provided them with a fair level of health care would you buy ONLY those DVD players? In that scenario, in order to do that and make a 12% total profit return (to stay in business) I am sure they would have to price those units in the $200.00 to $300.00 price range - much where they were when the technology was newer and the demand hadn't yet driven the need to mass produce the item (to where the cost point was driven so low that they couldn't be made here anymore).

Would you pay that much? I would if I could find them, but I can't find them - those products do not exist. At the same time too, I am the exception. There are not enough people able and / or willing to pay a premium to buy "US ONLY"

If there were a market for this someone would open a "US ONLY" store and sell "US ONLY" products.

The demand is not there and as I have written the exact opposite is true.

"Our corporate masters, assisted by our elected officials, have overseen the ruination of the American worker and this trend continues today."

I cannot argue with this as everyone has their opinion and I do agree with some parts of it - I think it’s a shame that in some instances there is no opportunity for people that want to work and want to excel. The ones that will sweep a floor with pride as if they owned the building in which they were doing the manual labor. The ones that will stay a little later to get things done. The ones that get everything they're assigned to do by the designated time table as needed and when their done they ask "what do you need me to do next?"

However, I have often seen the worker ruin things for themselves as well. How many people can you name that get to work on time? Only take scheduled breaks for coffee and lunch? Never leave until the end of their shift or closing time?

I can go on.

How many people work the system by hiding on a route or intentionally slowing down to do less? Figure out just how much sick time they can take without getting into real trouble?

I will put the fault and blame right on corporate America every time they deserve it but let’s face some facts - the American worker is to blame too at some degree so when they need to take ownership they should.

"The problem is that many of the overseas workers who make the goods filling Wal-Mart will never have the same standard of living the US worker is still somehow able to maintain.”

Consumers control that - if you don't buy those goods then there will be no demand for them and those workers will need to find other jobs.

If all the consumers demanded tomorrow that any goods they purchased would only be of products made by companies that adhered to certain standards then only those products would survive.

But you'll never see that happen - consumers want to pay the lowest cost and they do not care what the real cost of that was.

Someone's losing part of their dignity overseas working in substandard conditions for very little pay and often they don't care themselves. For them it is an opportunity to earn $10.00 a day that they would have never had before. The real crime is the businesses engaged in that are fully aware of it. Again, setting the blame on the consumer as needed, we all know this is the case for many apparel products we buy but I dare anyone to stop people coming out of the clothing section of and big box retailer.

The end of the discussion from most consumers, after you point out all of the negative issues with the discounted clothing they buy, no matter how ugly the situation might be, is going to be "well, it’s not affecting me or my family"

I don't know of anyone that will put the clothes down and say "my goodness, I can't buy these for my kids knowing that kids over there are making them in sweatshops"

In most cases the response is going to be "everyone does it, I can't control it" and so on.

The consumer is the ultimate driver and controls ALL the power but everyone is functioning separately so there's no real control.

As I mentioned however there are many facets and its very complex - if people started shopping smart and only buying "green" or from "employee responsible" companies somewhere the greed factor is going to impact it. Some corporation is going to find a way to get around the deliverable of responsible support of their workers and /or the environment or consumers will end up in a situation where they need to cut back their spending or what have you and the option to shop smart and responsible will need to be sacrificed

The overall shame in my opinion is that we may already be too far along the path to ever turn back. It may be that no matter what actions even the majority attempt to take here to make things better for those around us and for others around the world that the events we've set in motion cannot be altered enough to prevent what is already coming as the end result.

That's the worst of all - realizing something when it's too late to do anything about it.

[wallyworld resident]

You make some good points too.
I am a union member, and I have seen both Union and Management employees abuse the system. I do have more job protection as a union member than my supervisors do and for that I will not apologize. I work for a global corporation with many centers in this country and worldwide, and I have seen the corporation move or reduce its workforce with a resulting decline of quality. This company was once the industry's best. The average employee now fears that his or her job may be the next one to be cut in the name of greater profit no matter how good a job he/she does. It's just simple math to corporate headquarters. Is it any wonder that some people react by abusing their benefits? Sometimes the line is a fine one, and I pay union dues to protect my rights as they were agreed to in our contract. These benefits were not won easily and I have a great amount of respect for those who fought-and sometimes died-to make the workplace a safer and better one for me. I try not to abuse the system but my company was once a much better place to work and there wasn't nearly as much abuse. They have yet to learn that loyalty and respect works both ways. Just for the record, my union doesn't really care much about my job either. It makes little difference in their bottom line when union jobs are moved from, say, Connecticut (where the cost of living, as we know, is very high) to a place like Oklahoma where it is lower. They behave much like the corporation I work for because they are a large global corporation too, and just as hard to do business with at times.
I, too, wish that there were more American-made goods available, I would certainly try to favor them. But not everyone is able to choose where to shop as readily as we are in the Northeast, WalMart and other mega corporations have reduced or eliminated competition in many areas.
How to reverse that trend? I wish I had the answer. We'd all like to make the world a better place for our children, and in many ways it is, but in the next 50 years it will be much harder for them to do the same.

[Edward Moore]

Hey all, I just found these forums and think they're a great idea.

Interesting discussion so far, although it seems fairly one-sided.

The problem I see with the comments made so far is that they seem to be based on a strict protectionist ideology. Can American workers produce DVD players? Sure, but it's a terrible waste of resources. DVD players being produced overseas means more resources are available for other uses here. The nations that produce DVD players for U.S. consumption aren't leading the pack in pharmaceutical research, high-tech innovation, or scientific advances, are they? For the most part, the answer is no.

[EastSideres]

Seems we all want a good paying job, but yet we want to to pay the lowest possible price for goods and services.

It just isn't going to work.

Good point Take a look at Wal-Mart in Wallingford

[gunderstone]

Good points Edward (and welcome)

With respect to your comment of "The nations that produce DVD players for U.S. consumption aren't leading the pack in pharmaceutical research, high-tech innovation, or scientific advances, are they" I have a reply of sorts.

You indicated "no" and while they may be true, from what I see currently, I believe that they are catching up to us at a frantic pace.

Whether it’s the schools and the education received there, the kids themselves not applying themselves, their parents not helping (or worse being a part of the problem), or a combination of some or all of these I feel that we're not necessarily going to continue to lead this pack.

What are your thoughts (and of course the thoughts of others) on how to change that and remain in the lead or at least remain one of the leaders?

[Edward Moore]

What are your thoughts (and of course the thoughts of others) on how to change that and remain in the lead or at least remain one of the leaders?

That's a good question, and I'll let you know my opinions and ideas while attempting not to open another can o' worms.

First off, I don't think there is much that can be done for workers in the manufacturing sector that are at the tail end of their career, i.e. the ones who are being hit the hardest by $39 DVD players. It's sad, but Americans in those types of jobs are going to meet the same fate as the supermarket cashier. This will happen regardless of any action taken in Washington.

Workers in the manufacturing sector who are not nearing retirement age are going to have to learn to do something else. I realize this simply is not possible for many people, but again, forces were set in motion long ago that are now mandating these actions.

As far as the future goes, it is my opinion that our education system needs to be radically overhauled. This should have been done five minutes ago, too, because the rest of the world is moving faster than many in this country realize.

The types of jobs, skills, and attitudes that will be needed in order to at least maintain our current standard of living are not being taught in the majority of our schools today. The recent report issued by "The New Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce" (available here:http://www.skillscommission.org/executive.htm) says just this in its 28 page report. The scary thing is, I'm only three years out of college...but I could have told you the same thing five or six years ago.

Bush recently quoted the report, saying "Our education and training systems were built for another era, an era in which most workers needed only a rudimentary education." Anyone who aspires to do more than the most menial of jobs today is going to need to know more than the basics.

Kids need to learn critical thinking skills! We must nourish, instead of crush, their natural tendency to think outside the box. In order to do that, art, music and other creative subjects need to be put back into the curriculum. I think it’s a travesty that ETS just added a writing section to the SAT. It’s astonishing how many college students cannot write a coherent sentence today!

This post is getting away from me now, so I’ll end it for now…