Budget cut arguments

[greenthumb671]

On other threads about the board of education budget cuts, there seems to be 2 general themes of people supporting the cuts. The first is a varying degree that people do not want to pay for education, extracurricular events, items considered beyond a core education, administrators, etc... The second theme are reasons to support the feeling that people do not want to pay for education. For example, someone says I think there should be a budget cut because test scores are low, or administrators make too much, or we hired a lot of people with nothing to show for it. I want to focus on the second theme because I think it is producing some emotional yet illogical arguments.

Here is a paraphrasing of an argument posted in some of the other threads.
Argument # 1 Students are getting low test scores so we should cut teachers and administrators because they are not doing their jobs (since test scores are low).


Here is the same argument with a few word changes:
Argument # 2 Crime is increasing so we should cut police officers and police officials because they are not doing their jobs (since crime is increasing)

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS AS BEING TRUE. My point is how absurd this sounds.

I do not fault people for not wanting to increase an already large part(majority) of the budget. I do think people should be careful as how they explain their rationale for supporting budget cuts in these posts.

Greenthumb

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

I may be mistaken but I do not believe the BOE had it's budget cut. A budget cut occurs when funds that are already allocated are removed. Here, the BOE came asking for another increase and received a smaller increase. This is not a cut, since the budget did increase by roughly 1% as opposed to 5%.

[greenthumb671]

You are correct. It is not a budget cut. However, since the increase voted for is smaller than increases in teacher salaries, energy for heating buildings, and so on, items existing in the budget will be cut, not maintained, and definitely not increased. I was referring to the things that will be cut in the budget as a result of the increase.

[eds]

How about being more efficient with the money that is already allocated. While I feel that the administrators and teachers salaries are fairly well deserved, I also feel that there are processes and procedures that could be improved. In every process there are inefficiencies. The key is for these highly educated administrators and teachers to find where these inefficiencies are and reduce them. I find it hard to believe this school system or any school system runs as efficiently as possible. It's time to take a hard look at the process and introduce improvements. Where those improvements are is not something I know, however, I am sure those in the system could identify them easily. Identify key personnel, identify unnecessary personnel, identify unnecessary areas where technology might be used to lower costs; these are all things that would be useful to do. One area I like to look at is paper and printing. Go paperless. That would eliminate the unnecessary expense of toner, ink, and paper. And to those to set in their ways to embrace new methods, procedures, and technology I say, adapt or die.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

I agree with eds. I have no real issue with salaries for qualified administrators and teachers. These costs truly are market driven and are a reality.

My issue with the BOE budget is the manner in which BOE handles their funding. The BOE historically adds a cushion to the budget, has transferred excessive funds at the end of fiscal years to avoid returning funds, and fails to adequate break out line items to truly demonstrate cost. This is not a matter of refusing to educate Meriden's children. This is a matter of asking for and demanding some fiscal accountability from an department that makes up more than half of the city budget.

The reality is that the BOE becomes chicken little when any talk of reducing funding is broached. The BOE argues from a position of inflaming the passions of the public and predicting gloom and doom. Accordingly, I am not surprise that members of the public response with arguments that may seem illogical, but the reality is, the public’s arguments are no more illogical than the BOE gloom and doom arguments.

I have yet to hear one educator answer the question of why performance should not be linked to funding. If the residents of Meriden could move their child into any Meriden public school (without the school being failing school under NCLB), with the tax dollars following the child, as opposed to being spread across the system, this would create an incentive for schools to perform since the funding is linked to the child (this is actually a model employed in certain parts of Europe).

[eds]

That's a nice model. Almost like privatization except with tax dollars. The child's family becomes sort of custodian of the money. Sort of a voucher, I guess. That would probably work actually. Interesting...

[collie]

I predict the BOE budget will be cut in ways that are going to really hurt. I don't think people realize yet that the Cambridge report has directed the board to concentrate on the achievement gap as top priority. Student government, AP courses, music, class sizes, gifted and talented ... All wonderful programs but can people justify the expense in terms of what is needed to turn our failing schools around in terms of state test scores?

I do agree with the points made by the original thread starter.

Whatever is going to happen, I don't believe the BOE was lying in terms of the needs of their budget. A veritable army won't save the gifted and talented programs this time. There are too many kids who can't read, write and do math at grade level. The money has got to concentrate on the basics. How will the BOE justify AP courses that have very few minorities in them? Ordinarily, an army would descend on the BOE and they would get their way. Not this time, I think. Priorities are going to have to be revolving around the recommendations made by the Cambridge report, in order to avoid state takeover of schools.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Can you say Chase Collegiate or Little Miss Porter's. I can. That is my resolution to the BOE problem. Meriden can keep my tax dollars and I will happily pay extra for a private education for my child that I control. Additionally, I will make no apologies for the fact that I am able and willing to provide such an education to my family.

[eds]

Looking into Choate and Cheshire myself. No apologies necessary.

[whalers44]

If people want a good education, the catholic schools in the city will give you one....

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Agreed. I attended catholic school from 1-8 grade. Not only did I receive a quality education, I also received a moral compass and understanding of morality and its application in a person's life.

[brunet]

Guys, take it easy on the school system, there has been an incredible amount of success stories. Personally, my daughter went to Ben Franklin, Lincoln, Washington and Maloney. She graduated from Fordham University and is now working on her Masters at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland while working as a MRP (congressman) aide in the Scottish Parlament.
Her graduating class had students going on to Yale, Johns Hopkins, Northeastern, Harvard, Northwestern, West Point and many other top Universties.
Far too little of these positive stories are told, we seem to only acknowledge the negative.
I am sure every year has similar results.
In my daughters year, all of those students were in kindergarten thru 5th grade from 1990-1995 with class sizes of 25-30 with no teaching assistants.
Parents have no need to fear Public School or be hysterical if less money is spent. Meriden's school ranking statewide was 156 out of 163 back then as it is now.
I originally lived in Multifamily housing on Reservoir Ave. then moved to the east side so I have seen all sides of the pubic education system.
The point is no matter the class size or money spent every tool is available
for kids to succeed. There is no need to spend money on private school.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

brunet:

The next election is over a year away. Every post from you reminds me of Mayor Mark, never a commitment either way. I have no doubt that Meriden has produced success stories. However, if you actually were elected you would have to decide if the BOE is being fiscal responsible. Standing in the middle is not an answer. The argument, as I stated before, is not if the system is working, it is whether the system really needs the increase that is asked for.

[eds]

Do you need to be Catholic or registered with a Catholic church to attend Catholic schools? Are they certified educational schools meeting state requirements? I would think that is the case. But I am no expert on these types of schools.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

eds:

The catholic schools are accredited and meet the state requirements (CMT testing etc). However, there is no requirement of being catholic as far as I know. I went to catholic school and one of my classes mates was Jewish.


On another note: I was waiting for some astute member of the forum to point this out. But, a letter writer got there first. (Today's RJ 5/9/08)

Tough turf!
Editor: How ironic it was to read the front page (R-J, 5/5) of Monday’s newspaper! The turf being rolled out at Meriden’s Falcon Field, and the Board of Education getting a minimal increase in their budget. What a disservice to the children of the city who want a quality education. The City of Meriden really does need to start getting their priorities in order.
DEBBIE TIMEK, MERIDEN

In the BOE's defense they did not ask for this project. It was hoisted upon them by the council and Gaffey generous grant from the state. I personally feel much better knowing that even if the kids cannot read, they got a great place to play sports. :eek:

[collie]

Catholic schools in CT are accredited by the same people who accredit the public schools, I believe. But EDS, they do not take the CMTs. From what I was told, they are not allowed to. Instead, they take the Iowa skills tests every year. My personal opinion is that the public school system did not want comparisons made if the private schools took CMTs. I do believe the Catholic schools would like to take them (an opportunity to shine with dwindling enrollment) but are not allowed to.

Catholic schools do not limit themselves to Catholic students but your child will be required to take a religion course. And they go to Mass once a week at school, too. Even though I'm not Catholic, I don't have a problem with my kids going to Mass once a week. Not sure how it would work if someone did have a problem with that; they should ask all those questions up front when looking at the school.

The Falcon field project is a perfect example of the criticism the state made of the BOE in the Cambridge Report. That of the Meriden BOE being too easily manipulated by the political system. That is the masses of parents who come out, demand a program, and get their way despite the board knowing it should have other priorities, as in the failing test scores.

I'm not surprised to see that Mary Cortright is considering resigantion, although I think it may be because of serious illness in her family, as opposed to this whole budget situation. However, if I were her, I would close all the kindergartens in the city, or an elementary school, or yank all the Meriden Edison students out in an effort to have a balanced budget that is not going to fall short. The BOE is liable, personally responsible, if the budget falls short and I wouldn't mess around with Suzio's numbers as opposed to Glen Lamontaigne's.

Mary Cortright is the best school superintendant we have ever had. If I were her, I would go out with a big bang. But then again, the woman is a saint and doesn't have a nasty temper like mine.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Collie:

You are correct. I now vaguely recall taking a standardized test in catholic school referred to the Iowa. I still hate number 2 pencils to this day.

[eds]

I believe we took Iowa in CT back in the late 70s early 80s. I remember that test, yes, but not where. I went to school for a short time in NY. There I believe were regents exams as well. I can't remember back nearly 30 years ago.

[whalers44]

Listen, Mary Cortwright is not the greatest...she is only as good as the people working for her....To me Glen L and the guy who left for Rocky Hill to be the super are the real leaders....scores have not gone up in her regime and NCLB is still not up to snuff...what we need to do is get a better a better contract with the teachers and also evaluate our teachers. Once they get in they are there for life no matter how good or bad they are. Everyone, whether they work in an office or whatever, has someone evaluating them. But teachers have no one. That needs to change. People complain about the money but if the teachers are evaluated, the kids would get a good education. I'm not saying that there are alot of bad ones, but there are some and this needs to be corrected. Also, do we really need a super??? we have enough assistants....

[S_Meriden60]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for education. I've had my kids in private schools and now they are in public schools in town. I also happen to love my town even though it has some areas that need work.
I would support giving the board more money, but...
They can't provide a line by line budget to show where all the money is going.
Then they held $500,000 in an account and kept quiet about it until it was discovered.
I'm sick and tired of the BOE threating to take away sports, etc. when they should be looking at other areas in administration.
100K for middle school principals?