'Board of Education'

[cherrybarbs]

The top B.O.E employee's need their salaries cut and most of them can be laid off, but instead their going to play the fear card and say we our going to take away your arts, sports and cut teachers This is the only way they know how to get more tax dollars. We are spending about $10,000 a student and what are we getting for our return? My son is on the honor roll every year and I ask him, "Why is it so easy for you?" He told me they got him in B courses, so I went and asked a teacher why isn't he in college prep courses? She told me that the students need to look good for the S.A.T. so we can get more funding from the state. If you think that is bad, another teacher told me that the more kids we put in Special Ed the more money they get. This is why I'm in favor of vouchers and tax credits, so we can have the option of sending our kids to a private school. Don't let them play the fear card tonight, lets fight back. If you can't improve our Child's Eduction with the budget you got now, dumping more money in a broken system isnt going to help.

[eds]

I don't think eliminating the top "brass" just because they are well paid is a good idea. I also don't think we need public school systems. They should all be privatized. You should be able to send your child to the best school your money can buy. For those that have no money, then charities would provide scholarships to the those that show the most promise. Either way I would be able to donate money to the charity and still pay my own tuition from the reduction in property taxes by eliminating public education.

[RC12L4]

I don't think eliminating the top "brass" just because they are well paid is a good idea. I also don't think we need public school systems. They should all be privatized. You should be able to send your child to the best school your money can buy. For those that have no money, then charities would provide scholarships to the those that show the most promise. Either way I would be able to donate money to the charity and still pay my own tuition from the reduction in property taxes by eliminating public education.

Careful what you wish for, what if one of those private schools is a store front church?

[gene36]

I asked this once before. Where can I get the salary report on the whole school payroll.
All Ive been able to find is the top 38 positions which comes to $3,800,000 dollars or so.

[cherrybarbs]

I think the Top B.O.E. only puts out their salaries, not the teachers and what you see doesn't include all their perks.None of the City employees have their benefits included in that report.

[RC12L4]

Meriden City Employees Salary Information:
http://www.mysunforums.com/content/RJ/content/myrj/Documents/Meriden2008salaries.PDF

CT teachers are the highest paid teachers on average in the entire US, on average CT teachers make $57,760 yearly. CT teachers also have the highest begining teching salary at $39,259:
http://www.aft.org/presscenter/releases/2007/statereleases/SalarySurvey-CT.pdf

[eds]

I don't see how they are the same. A school is a school. A church is a church.

In a pure private education system, there would be private certification boards which certify schools and that which colleges would look at to indicate the level of the education. In order to be certified by that private agency you would have to run the school right. Consumers would either value or not value one particular certification over another.

This is similar to the SAT or ACT college entrance exams. These are tests developed and administered by a private organization. Though some colleges are putting less of a value on that test, it remains the standard for many. That test is totally private.

Another example is Sylvan learning centers. They are private businesses in the business of teaching students. You could, in theory, send your child to Sylvan for the entirety of their education. If that met the college of choice for your child, then that is sufficient.

The government does not have to get involved. It is entirely self-regulated. I believe colleges can be accredited in a similar, non-governmental fashion today, thought I am not 100% certain about this.

Besides with private zoning, a neighborhood could decide for or against allowing such entities in certain areas, be it a school or church. It would be by land covenants, not zoning law. They are the same thing, essentially, but one is contractual between private parties and the other enforced by city law.

[RC12L4]

I don't see how they are the same. A school is a school. A church is a church.

In a pure private education system, there would be private certification boards which certify schools and that which colleges would look at to indicate the level of the education. In order to be certified by that private agency you would have to run the school right. Consumers would either value or not value one particular certification over another.

This is similar to the SAT or ACT college entrance exams. These are tests developed and administered by a private organization. Though some colleges are putting less of a value on that test, it remains the standard for many. That test is totally private.

Another example is Sylvan learning centers. They are private businesses in the business of teaching students. You could, in theory, send your child to Sylvan for the entirety of their education. If that met the college of choice for your child, then that is sufficient.

The government does not have to get involved. It is entirely self-regulated. I believe colleges can be accredited in a similar, non-governmental fashion today, thought I am not 100% certain about this.

Besides with private zoning, a neighborhood could decide for or against allowing such entities in certain areas, be it a school or church. It would be by land covenants, not zoning law. They are the same thing, essentially, but one is contractual between private parties and the other enforced by city law.


So the schools would be financed through tuition and charitable donations? You really think you could charge enough tuition or get enough charitable donations to actually do this? What happens if the charity comes up short, what kids get to lose out? The ones who can't afford to go in the first place? Remember you can't hit up the government for funding because if the school is faith based people will scream "speration of church and state".

[bnm]

Simply put it is absolutley BS that there is a porposal to cut teachers, support staff, and or sports and enrichment programs. We 1st need pay reform which includes bringing our highest paid individuals to a pay below 100k. We need to have a hiring freeze and maintain the indivduals we currently employ. We need to offer early retirment programs to teachers/ individuals who are close to maintain our younger more passionate and technologically more diverse professionals. We need to create an endowment fund to support our sports and probably implement a pay for play program which should not exceede more than $10 per year per student.The BOE should go back to the union and renegotiate the yearly raise for the next year and limit it to 1%.
Just a few thoughts.

[eds]

Ok let me first address RC12L4.

In my little example, in that world, people's taxes overall, nationwide would be so low it would be 5-8% of income. With taxes so low, anyone could afford to send their child to any school they wanted. Costs of schooling would be low because there would be competition. School administrator's pay, and the school business income, would be dictated by profits just like in the private sector. This of course supposes a complete privatization and pay-for-service system.

Donations to charity would be out of the good will of the people. Today, with current taxes, many foundations exist which support people in need. They could do more with more donations of which I am sure more people would be more than willing to provide.

Would it work? Who knows because in reality it will never work. When I send my child to private school, I will still be paying for the public school system.

Now to address bnm. In regard to force cutting salaries to an arbitrary level below 100K, what will happen when the administrators quit, and you cannot replace them with equally qualified and talented people? I believe you need a significant amount of certifications, training, and schooling to be at that level. The market dictates the salary. How many times do these individuals leave one school system to go to another for better pay? We would have a high turn over rate and that would affect the quality of the education. Since there really is no affordable school system that is competitive with public school you have no competitive choice. Not everyone can afford to send their child to private school under the current economic model.

This is the worst idea yet. "We need to offer early retirment programs to teachers/ individuals who are close to maintain our younger more passionate and technologically more diverse professionals." So the more experienced teachers are just cast aside? Do you suppose that because of their age that they are less passionate about education? I don't think that is entirely true.

Renegotiate raises? It was what was negotiated in the first place. You can just simply renegotiate every time you don't get what you want. For that matter, let's renegotiate their pay and their benefits. A contract was signed. It must run its course. At the next round of negotiations, then make the request. A limit of 1% does not account for inflation. Connecticut teachers are some of the highest paid in America. Would you work for a 1% raise each year? Not me.

If by pay for play that means each student pays for the program, then with that I agree. Extra curricular activities should be entirely paid for by the participants, their parents, and taxes reduced as a result. It's bad enough my taxes go to pay for schooling I don't have children using. To pay for their sports too? No. I don't think so. They, meaning their parents, should pay the full boat.

[gene36]

We are getting off the track. How do we find out what is in the school budget.
For instance: there are 29 crossing guards at an average salary of 8 or $9000.00 included in the city salary list and not the BOE.

[bnm]

We seem to have 2 different oppinions- After all if I were a principal an individual making 115k I would volunteer a pay cut to keep my staff in place. As far as the experienced teachers- several of them disgust me- showing up to school minutes before the bell, leaving before the contracted time. Never showing up to family/school wide functions, I even know of one who would not tutor a child who was struggeling for less than $40/hr- are you kidding me- while not all, some are just buying time- they don't care about the kids or thier success. Maybe we should adobt the Jack Welch (GE) model and yearly cut the bottom 10%. I am a true beleiver that if you want to succeed sacrifice comes from the top down- (I.E. Tom Brady takes far less than waht he deserves to turnout a great program) Unions are destroyting big business as they are our educational system (well that with nclb). There should be room for a renegotiation as they are well paid and have substantial benefits.
Under a full pay for play system you will have a majority of athletes not be able to compete. Under an endowment system and minor pay for play all can still compete.
I do not want to see a system of haves and have nots... do you?

[collie]

To Gene - if you call the BOE central office, they could probably email you their budget from last year. Don't know if this year's would be ready since it hasn't been finalized. I do remember seeing a budget at a BOE meeting a few years ago and it was confusing as hell and gave only line item numbers without an itemized breakdown. Plus, grants were not included and as you noted, some things, like crossing guards and health insurance, come from the city side and not the BOE directly. Len Suzio would be the BOE member to call for info - he established a budget subcommittee some four years ago or so.

[eds]

We seem to have 2 different oppinions- After all if I were a principal an individual making 115k I would volunteer a pay cut to keep my staff in place. As far as the experienced teachers- several of them disgust me- showing up to school minutes before the bell, leaving before the contracted time. Never showing up to family/school wide functions, I even know of one who would not tutor a child who was struggeling for less than $40/hr- are you kidding me- while not all, some are just buying time- they don't care about the kids or thier success. Maybe we should adobt the Jack Welch (GE) model and yearly cut the bottom 10%. I am a true beleiver that if you want to succeed sacrifice comes from the top down- (I.E. Tom Brady takes far less than waht he deserves to turnout a great program) Unions are destroyting big business as they are our educational system (well that with nclb). There should be room for a renegotiation as they are well paid and have substantial benefits.
Under a full pay for play system you will have a majority of athletes not be able to compete. Under an endowment system and minor pay for play all can still compete.
I do not want to see a system of haves and have nots... do you?

This is all rather altruistic, eh? Volunteering a pay cut? Most would not.

The system of haves and have nots will always be with us. We will never create the perfect Utopian society.

Jack Welch's model is no longer looked upon with the reverence it once was. I prefer W.E. Deming's TQM model over Welch's. I have studied a great deal in management theory and currently hold an MBA specializing in management. Pay cuts are not the answer for long term success in educational administration. Using the talents we have more efficiently and effectively is the answer. Efficiency and effectiveness are totally different things. If I had time, I would delve into the theory of each.

[bnm]

I too hold a Master's in Business and while Jack Welch's model is no longer the best application, I think you see my point, which is we need to trim the right fat. Under the proposal we would be hurting the wrong people.

[eds]

We need to objectively define what is "fat" and what is "meat", so to speak.

Basing cuts upon age or income is too subjective. I would base it upon performance reviews. Then I would look at those whose performance is lackluster and offer these individuals either training or review any processes which may be affecting their performance. Is the system set up to enable success? Are we removing obstacles and empowering enough of the right people to make success easy to create. Success is created from the people which participate in any given system. If the system is flawed the people cannot be successful. If the people are flawed, no system can ever succeed. Good business is about marrying good processes with good people.

We need to quantify poor performance and the reasons for that before we place blame. I don't think as outsiders we can even begin to understand the dynamics of what we are analyzing.

Simply cutting salaries for the sake of reducing costs or just to lower taxes is fairly myopic. I really can't understand the attitude that says "How dare anyone make more than me." or "How dare they make that much money when other people are suffering." The fact is they "earn" that money. No one makes money. It takes quite a lot of skill to be at that level and pay is commensurate with that skill level. I strongly believe that the current processes are what is preventing success in our schools, not pay and not the people themselves.

I have no problem with have/have nots because membership in either group is earned. Whether you think you can or can't, you're right. That was a saying I heard once and it hold true even now.

[bnm]

I agree with every point you have made, however, I do not view our educational system as a business which is concerned with p&l. I do think under a business structure the CEO and decision makers should get every perk. I look at this from the view point of someone who has several nieces, nephews, and children within the system. I can not and will not applaud decision makers who decide to limit opportunities to our children, overcrowd classrooms, and continue to fail under NCLB.
I do agree that we should allow some wiggle room to our tenured teachers and top brass. They've earned it, but they have also earned scrutiny, and should get more creative with their gameplan. It seems to me that every time the budget falls short, the kids, the enrichment programs, and support staff are threatened.

[cherrybarbs]

Higher pay doesn't always mean you the most qualified person for the job ,I'm not against people making high incomes. I'm saying our top B.O.E. employees shouldn't be getting top pay for bad results http://www.cmtreports.com/CMTCode/Report.aspx?data=D23D4165CB2729D460F7428733D63725 I wouldn't hire the most expensive roofer I can find ,thinking I'm getting the best roof job?

[eds]

As to the Mastery Tests, and lackluster performance, is it the teachers who aren't being good teachers, is it the students who aren't being good students, or is it the parents who are not being good parents?

Education is a three way street. Teachers teach the lessons to curricula established. Student must be receptive to learning and motivated to learn. Parents must ensure homework is done, their children eat right, get enough exercise, and are given the proper environment at home. Teachers can only present the knowledge. Parents and students must do their part to ensure the student absorbs the knowledge.

We cannot hold school officials entire to blame. We must consider the comparative negligence of all parties involved in a student's education.

[bnm]

I realize the impact parents, teachers, and students have on their acquired education. And I understand the whole the metaphor "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" But I also ask myself, "What if the horse(s) are thirsty but there is no one to take them to the water (para's or teachers) or what if the horse(s) are thirsty and you lead them to the water but their is no water to be found (enrichment programs, sports, etc). When it comes to a public education the idea of cutting programs, teachers, and support staff should not be considered.
Hey from a topic we banterred about earlier (From RJ online regarding the school budget) The salaries of school administrators were also discussed, with Councilor Walter A. Shamock Jr. suggesting that the school system has too many administrators who make too much. "On this side, we do get rid of administrators," he said. "I suggest you try to curtail any hiring of new administrators. I'm not telling you how to run the board, but ..."

[Common Sense]

The Board Of Education needs to make serious cuts in their budget and be more accountable. Over half of our tax dollars are spent for the Board of Ed with dismal returns. There are too many directors of this and that. Middle management would be the first place to look for savings. The retirement package they gave to the last Superintendent was for me the last straw. This issue comes up year after year. Maybe it's time for the State to take over if they can't get their act together. I'm tired of the same old story year after year. I fully support our City Manager and hope the City Council understands as a City, we have to learn to live within our means.

[eds]

Home schooling should be an option when programs are not available in school. I believe home schooling can provide a better education. If what you say is true, that our teaching staff is lackluster and lacks the motivation to inspire young minds, then parents should be able to provide a better education in the form of home schooling.

We can learn to live within our means, or increase our means. We need to rise to a new level of economic power in this town. I think it's time to start expanding this town to a greater means.

[RC12L4]

Just curious, how many people posting here actually know some local teachers? Not just in passing but actually know them.

[eds]

I know two, but not in Meriden. Coventry and Wallingford if I remember correctly.

Relevance to your question? Knowing a teacher or two in Meriden does not change the outcome over knowing zero teachers in Meriden. You would need to personally know a statistically large enough sample of teachers to have a confidence level of 95% or more for any given conclusion based upon this connection.

Your statistical model must have enough data to draw conclusions from, one way or another. So no one's opinion would be more confidently derived than any other in that case. What is a large enough sample? Since we know the population size, the number of teachers, we could sample all of them for adjuncts to our opinion. Or we could determine based upon a confidence interval of 95%, error rate of +/- 5%, and a maximum variability of .5, using a formula (n = N / (1 + N(.05)^2), we can derive a sample size of approximately 171 teachers given a total population of 300 teachers, give or take.

So the question really should be who here knows enough teachers, meaning 171 teachers, to form a qualified opinion. No one. Even one knew 10 teachers, the opinion would be no more qualified than any others.

[Common Sense]

Just wondering how many teachers, staff, administrators etc actually live in Meriden? I know it's not required. My long time neighbor was a teacher at Lincoln. They couldn't wait to move out of Meriden once her husband retired. She is now a teacher in New York State and her husband is a professor. She loves teaching but more importantly she looks forward to the school day in her new location. One of her biggest complaints was with the 'politics' of the education system here. Even though she herself was a teacher, she believed that all teachers should be evaluated yearly and held accountable accordingly.

[bearsmom]

I moved out of Ct 25 years ago, my husband and I are planning on moving back up there, I have been reading about the BOE on this forum. In the "township" we live in we have 2 different school systems, one for the highschool and one for the middle and elementry schools. Do you have the same thing up there?

We have a superentendent of schools and assistant superentendant of schools for each system. we have 3 public high schools, 3 public middle schools and 9 public elementry schools. We have 5 towns in our "township"

In the high schools we have 1 principal and 4 vice principals. in the middle schools we have 1 principal and 3 vice principals and in the elemenry we have 1 principal and 1 vice principal.

Each Superentendent makes about 170,000. and the assistant makes about 150,000. The superentendant gets a car to drive around in that belongs to the school district and gets the gas in our bus yard. our taxes pay his insurance bill and car payments.

I live in a 4 bedroom house on less than a 1/4 acre lot and my property taxes are just under 7000.00 a year.

How are the taxes up there and how does the school system up there work?
Just courious as we are looking forward to moving back up there

thank you

[cherrybarbs]

Its sounds like you’re getting ripped off too, as I said in my previous post about the cutting of teacher’s, arts and sports. And look what they’re saying now. They play that same fear card every year. If the top administrators are so concern about the Teachers and programs, why won’t they cut their salaries and pay more there healthcare costs? I hope the City Council does the right thing and doesn't give them a penny more. They should pass what the City Manger recommended. If not, taxes will rise 2 to 5% and its, ching ching again, for the B.O.E.;)

[cherrybarbs]

“School system supporters turn out for budget hearing” what a superb job written by Amanda Falcone, of R.J. Staff. I hope everybody reads it. I do disagree with the library cuts and the Police should have what ever they need. But overall I wasn’t that far off on the B.O.E.

[bnm]

I was at the meeting last night. It seems to me that the budget is not being approved because of the "inflated" salaries. (No EDS we do not need to discuss wether they are worth the money or not). If the increase in budget is being denied over salaries, don't you think that is a past problem? I saw many parents plead to the council about keeping the education status at where it is or improving it. I also read letters to the editor pleading the case of class size and our only "passing" school. So is the board of ed budget about the kids or top teir salaries. If the budget is denied who suffers? I am sure the council recognizes the need for a better teacher to student ratio, and that our kids need the enrichment programs, the learning strats, and the athletic programs. So whats the problem? If the budget passes I realize as a taxpayer we all suffer, but if the issue is salaries, how did they get to the point where we only now judge them? Can someone tell me why we are payng the healthcare costs from a former super and the entire family?

[eds]

We really need to be more efficient with the money we have been giving the school system.

[cherrybarbs]

Was that nice of B.O.E. to pass that wonderful package for the superintended and is family, I believe the kids they get the health insurance till their 40 yrs old. I hope more of their waste will start coming out as this intensifies .The City Manger wouldn’t be proposing this 1.7. increase, unless he had the backing of the City Council. And from what I heard, their standing by it. That would be goods news for taxpayers, I think there starting to get the message.

[cherrybarbs]

BOE says budget could represent mill-rate decrease
By: Jason Vallee, Record-Journal staff, 1:21 p.m. 04/22/2008

SOUTHINGTON - If the Town Council approves the Board of Finance's proposed budget for a 4.25 percent school increase, members of the Board of Education said increases in state funding will equate to a savings for taxpayers for the second straight year.



Brian Goralski said that in the last two years, the board has seen an increase in funding of nearly $6 million from the state but have received less than that in their annual budget increases.

"With the additional revenue we have received from the state, the budgets of the last two years have actually had a decrease in the mill-rate and the cost to taxpayers," he said.

The board received a 3.3 percent increase in the approved FY 2007-08 budget - a total of $2.16 million - and with a 4.25 percent proposed increase by the Board of Finance, the school district would receive around a figure of $5.21 million over the last two years combined. [Why not in Meriden?]

[cherrybarbs]

Board of Education member Robert E. Kosienski Jr. said he had parents crying on his shoulder after the City Council's budget vote.
That’s so sad:( what about the 100’s of good people who are selling and even lost their homes, because they can’t afford to pay their Taxes anymore! :mad:

[eds]

A true dichotomy of interests. All the more reason to privatize services and implement a pay-as-you-go system. Those who have no children in school, like the elderly, should not be paying for those that do. The budget is, what, like 50% education? Privatize schools and then only those who have children in school pay for their education. Why do we make people pay for things they do not use?

[RC12L4]

A true dichotomy of interests. All the more reason to privatize services and implement a pay-as-you-go system. Those who have no children in school, like the elderly, should not be paying for those that do. The budget is, what, like 50% education? Privatize schools and then only those who have children in school pay for their education. Why do we make people pay for things they do not use?

I'm with you on this as long as I can stop paying Social Security, I mean after all I don't use it.

[eds]

Privatize that too. It's up to you to fund your own retirement. I want to take that money and invest it. Control my own destiny. But remember, this cuts both ways. You mess up, you end up without anything. Society has no obligation to help you unless private charities decide to. Then it becomes voluntary to help those destitute, and not forced through taxation.

[cherrybarbs]

I couldn’t agree more eds, also why in the world these students are not in uniforms. Then the Police wouldn’t have to be called day after day for fights and crap. I never hear them get called to ST. Joseph’s, ST. Stan’s or any other private t schools! However you know how Mayor tax and spend Mark is going to vote! :rolleyes:

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

I couldn’t agree more eds, also why in the world these students are not in uniforms. Then the Police wouldn’t have to be called day after day for fights and crap. I never hear them get called to ST. Joseph’s, ST. Stan’s or any other private t schools! However you know how Mayor tax and spend Mark is going to vote! :rolleyes:

Mandating uniforms is such a gross oversimplification. I could not even begin to address the numerous factors that contribute to the perceived presence of increased behavioral problems in public schools. One basic thought may be to explore the idea that the private schools do not call the police, not that there are any less issues. If the answer to substantially decreasing violence in public schools was as simple as mandating uniforms, there would be no need for an SRO, juvenile justice studies, etc.

[eds]

Regardless of what the uniforms may or may not solve, I think uniforms are a great idea. It teaches children to dress properly. In the working world, we all wear a uniform. Be it scrubs in a hospital, police uniforms, military uniform, suit and tie, or carpenters clothes. Dressing appropriately and respectfully is something that is not taught to children these days. Behavioral problems notwithstanding, I feel dressing properly is something which teaches children respect for themselves and for others. I see a lot of adults out there who dress in clothes I wouldn't put my dog in. I'm not talking haute-couture, but from I see today, people need a lesson or two in how to dress.

Pajamas are not clothing to be worn outside the house. Slippers are not outdoor shoes. Wear clothes that fit you right, not like a stuffed sausage. Pants are worn at the waist. Clothes with holes are not acceptable. Sneakers are for performing athletic activities as are sweat pants. You wear shoes out. You wear dress jeans or slacks not dungarees in which you just finished changing the oil. Dress appropriately when dining at a nice restaurant. Sit up straight, elbows off the table. Show some respect, some manners. Message tees are only funny once then they are annoying. A lesson in fashion for some might be helpful.

[collie]

You're probably going to hate me for this, but bear with my wicked wit as I point out that I'm surprised someone with such a "prissy" dress code for life would defend to the death the right of the teacher in Southington to talk and dress like a slut on the Howard Stern Show.
Good thing I didn't run into you downtown yesterday afternoon. I was in my big fuzzy red slippers picking up pizza. No PJs, but then again, if someone nominated me for "What not to wear," I'd tell them to stick it in their ear.

[eds]

I can see where you might be confused. "The right" and "being right" are two different things. Being right implies subjectiveness. What is right and what is wrong? But "a right" is the right separated from "correctness".

I will defend anyone's right to express themselves be it with big fuzzy slippers or a pair of to-die-for Ferragamo loafers. I like fashion. Some do, some don't. I don't necessarily agree with the expression, but the right to; that is for what I fight.

There is also another argument for what I fight. I fight for the proper education of children. Parents choose to dress themselves to whatever standard they want. No so for children. Children if not taught proper manners, dress, and so forth only grow up to be mirrors of their parents bad habits. Parents must raise their children to a proper societal level. Then they can choose to deviate from that as adults.

The point is that something as simple as saying "Thank you" , "Please", and covering your mouth when you cough is the same as something complex which is that you don't wear sweats and sandals to a wedding. It's about raising our children right.

Children have no moral compass, no ability to judge right and wrong. We do them a disservice when we do not at least give them the proper role model to follow. Not Miley Cyrus, but us; we as parents should be the role model to follow for our children's sake. Even if we perhaps have say, a foul language habit; most adults will censor themselves in the presence of children. Sure...later on they will curse just like the rest of us; but as children to expose them to that without the ability to judge right and wrong for themselves is morally wrong.

That's the difference. We're talking about a teacher who is an adult. She might have gone to a bar for sake of argument. She can drink, but her student cannot. See?

Since we do not know what is right and wrong , really, they being subjective, we must at least create a standard which the schools would teach. Sort of like driving. We all started out with the proper 10/2 and drove the speed limit. Then the bad habits came into play. We don't start out teaching the driving student the bad habits. We give them the standard to uphold and then they deviate from that. Same with the children. We give them the proper way of going about in life, then they deviate from that.

In fact we all start out innocent and then end up sinners. Why start out teaching children how to sin, so to speak?

[cherrybarbs]

[Guys, take it easy on the school system, there has been an incredible amount of success stories] from Dan Brunet. I agree there are some successes in the public school system, but how many Graduates stay in Meriden or CT for that matter. Right now we are talking about dumping more moneys in a failing entity. It cost Taxpayers about $11,000.00 a student and majority are failing. Why don’t the City give parents a $3000.00 school vouchers to send our kids to a private school. That would save millions of dollars .The only other choice the B.O.E. has is stop wasting taxpayers money on things we don’t need, like fulltime daycare, [call it what you want]bilingual classes and the list goes on and on. With comments like yours Its no wonder why Republicans can’t win an election in this City.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

[Guys, take it easy on the school system, there has been an incredible amount of success stories] from Dan Brunet. I agree there are some successes in the public school system, but how many Graduates stay in Meriden or CT for that matter. Right now we are talking about dumping more moneys in a failing entity. It cost Taxpayers about $11,000.00 a student and majority are failing. Why don’t the City give parents a $3000.00 school vouchers, to send there kids to a private school. That would save millions of dollars .The only other choice the B.O.E. has, is stop wasting taxpayers money on things we don’t need, like fulltime daycare [call it what you want],bilingual classes and the list goes on and on. With comments like yours .Its no wonder why Republicans can’t win an election in this City.

At least brunet used something that could pass for grammar in his post.

[greenthumb671]

At least brunet used something that could pass for grammar in his post.

Brunet should be capitalized.

Did you go to a public school or a Catholic school?

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Actually, his screen name is brunet without the capitalization. If I referred to him as Mr. Daniel Brunet, or Mr. Brunet, thus the capitalization would be appropriate.

Catholic School, Undergraduate, Masters and J.D.

[cherrybarbs]

If Mary Cortright breaks her contract, does that mean we don’t have to pay her any Benefits? In the private sector if you break a binding contract, you for go all entitlements. But isn’t nice how the B.O.E makes there own rules on such matters.:rolleyes:

[jma]

Sounds like she's having a temper tantrum because she's not getting what she wants! If that's the case, good riddance!

[collie]

I don't think she's having a tantrum. If it were me, it definitely would be fury taking over at this point, but not Mary Cortright.
Breaking one's contract is a desperation move, as in this is just not worth it and I'll take the loss.

The woman is a saint, I tell you, a good, decent woman. I think that the cuts are going to be so severe in the Meriden educational system that the task to meet the state's requirements without the necessary resources is going to be IMPOSSIBLE.

Compound that with a politically motivated board that has always cowtowed to the pressures of those who wanted Falcon Field, gifted and talented ... at the expense of programs that could address the achievement gap.
Compound that further with Len Suzio insisting that LaMontaigne's numbers are wrong and a legal situation in which, if Suzio's numbers win and he is wrong, the board itself is liable if the buget falls short.

I don't know, I have to wonder if the biggest problem is that the board might use that 300,000. to keep the Youth in Government program and the gifted and talented program as opposed to addressing the issues raised in the Cambridege report.

[whalers44]

Let her go....she does nothing anyways....it is LaMontagne and the guy who went to Rocky Hill that kept her afloat. She was nothing but a "Yes" lady to the board and Kogut. And i do believe that the board has a reserve somewhere. It just shows people that we don't need "open space" in any town because "open Space" does not pay the bills....Let the Power Plant here and get $1.2M added to the coffers.....bigger business pays the bills not open space....i am getting tired of hearing every complain about education and other things but when they get the tax bills in july they all complain. WE NEED A BREAK IN MERIDEN!!!! Doesn't anyone get this!!!

[collie]

I get it. So much so that I wouldn't have gone to that public hearing and begged for money for the BOE if you paid me. I don't want to see failing schools but an increase of two millions dollars without taxes going up was the only way to go.
Hopefully, they can cut what they have to and bring the test scores up. Although I do think the cuts are going to be brutal and I wonder if people will move to find better schools. We shall see, never a dull moment.

[mysharona]

I don't think she's having a tantrum. If it were me, it definitely would be fury taking over at this point, but not Mary Cortright.
Breaking one's contract is a desperation move, as in this is just not worth it and I'll take the loss.

The woman is a saint, I tell you, a good, decent woman. I think that the cuts are going to be so severe in the Meriden educational system that the task to meet the state's requirements without the necessary resources is going to be IMPOSSIBLE.

Compound that with a politically motivated board that has always cowtowed to the pressures of those who wanted Falcon Field, gifted and talented ... at the expense of programs that could address the achievement gap.
Compound that further with Len Suzio insisting that LaMontaigne's numbers are wrong and a legal situation in which, if Suzio's numbers win and he is wrong, the board itself is liable if the buget falls short.

I don't know, I have to wonder if the biggest problem is that the board might use that 300,000. to keep the Youth in Government program and the gifted and talented program as opposed to addressing the issues raised in the Cambridege report.


A saint?? You are joking!!! Mary Cortwright is no saint!! Saints are in heaven!!

I think Mary should get a 10 day out of school suspension, be aressted by the BOE, and get a 180-day expulsion!!!!

[collie]

Well, you got your way. Her resignation is officially in. Beautiful letter she wrote and I must say, given the circumstances, she went out with a bang. That'll teach 'em! I still say she's a saint.
Wonder if Glen Lamontaigne is getting tired of being called a liar, incompetent or a crook and will follow suit.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Collie:

You are one up on me. Is her letter in.

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Nevermind, just read it..

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Collie:

I know you support Mary, I know her personally and like her, but in all honesty she is not and was not a phd level prepapred superintend. Meriden paid a premium for her and she arguable possessed less credentialies than than the market required. I will concede that leading under NCLB, is difficult, but I think she was adequate. The one plus is that the Noonan family is strictly Meriden, Mary and her family are devoted to this town and its well being. I guess in the end, I am sad to see her go, although I am a die hard republican, I can respect her.

[whalers44]

I agree with Charles. She was give the position by Mr Kogut and did not have the qualifications as others do. I think this would be the ideal position for Mark to take over. I think he could lead the School system and make Meriden proud. He know the ropes not only of the city but the school system also.

Mary is no lose. She was just a "YES" person to the BOE just like the last one that left. With all her money i would retire if i was her. But, when you get paid the big bucks, you are expected to put in the time. Now she knows what the real world is like outside of working for the government. The only thing i don't like is the fact that the BOE is going to start looking for someone and eventually will hire someone. I just hope we don't have an overlap of salaries.

As far as her letter of resignation, I think that this was just a bunch of BS. You don't go out and put that in writing. Just make your resignation short and sweet. Let's face it, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen which she did. So don't go blame every Tom, Dick, or Harry that comes along. To me she showed no class in that letter and poor leadership.

[cherrybarbs]

I hope the City doesn’t hire another superintendent to fill her shoes. The B.O.E. has way too many administrators as it is. Remember its all about the kids. :rolleyes:

[collie]

Let's see what they have to pay the next one; bet it'll be more than she made. We are a failing school district with a city unwilling to finance and state takeover fairly imminent. Mary Cortright won't have a problem finding another job but I think Meriden is going to have difficulties attracting a superintendant, given the circumstances here.

[cherrybarbs]

As long as we have people like Glen Lamontagne, Mark Hughes, Frank Kogut, and Robert Kosienski, Jr. in control of the B.O.E., we will always continue having a wonderful school system like Bridgeport, New haven and Hartford.:eek:

[collie]

Cherry Barbs, get a load of the BOE's "self evaluation" - it can be accessed on the R-J's front page. Apparently they were allowed to make their comments anonymously, which made them honest but I detected a rather unharmonious group with bad blood between them. Supposedly, it's all about the kids ...

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Collie:

I just read the self evaluations. That was priceless. I think we can all quess who wrote the critical post of the chairwoman of the DTC and Mr. Hughs. :)

[cherrybarbs]

The board is cutting two custodians, 14 teachers, nine kindergarten paraprofessionals, one preschool paraprofessional and 12 speech paraprofessionals. How about cutting all the administrators. But instead the top administrators are going to use teachers and students as pawns for their out of control spending. I don’t hear them talking cutting their own pay or paying more for their top rated benefits. I also think the B.O.E. self evaluation is the biggest joke they got going.

[Bob Williams]

Over the last week I've watched the Meriden council meeting, several times - not to mention the Finance Meetings, when televised.

The City Manager & Mr. Tait, did an exception job in presenting a clear (transparent) and consice business plan to the Finance Committee, City Council, Mayor and the citizens of Meriden, for there consideration.

It was clear in watching these meetings that the Central Office (BOE, Leadership) uses fuzzy math and continues to play a numbers game! WHY?

A “FEW” FACTS;

- Central Office submitted a one page document to the City Manager outlining there upcoming fiscal budget? This is the largest line item we have in the city of Meriden and the Central Office business plan is presented on one page document. It’s like you or I purchasing a home and we are given an address and a purchase price on a sheet of paper (where’s the beef)?

- A saving of $150,000.00 was identified in the Edison numbers.

- Need to look at Administrative & Central Office Salaries

- There’s flex built into the line item for certification in the amount of around $700,000.00.

- At the end of the fiscal year, June 30th, almost $500,000.00 was transferred into a 3rd party account – preventing these from being calculated into the overall cities numbers – WHY?

- On of the largest increases requested in the Central Office budget centered around some programs (Special Ed) where we get some state reimbursements/ assistance - again there was no documtation or information to support this increase? WHY?

The points noted are just a few of the cost saving ideas the City & Finance Manager have identified as they drilling down into the Central Office numbers - quite frankly a responsibility the Superintendent for Finance and Central Office is responsible for!

It’s pretty clear that the Central Office (Leadership) is doing a masterful job in reflecting all responsibilities and accountability off there plate and blaming everyone else - the Mayor, City Manager & Council for any short comings?

As for Mr. Lamontagne (Central Office) he has proven that his credibility is clearly in question and that he is not nor does he have full intention of being totally upfront with the shareholders of Meriden or the city council. (It’s evident that all he plays is a shell game with the, fuzzy math, numbers). If he were employed in the real world, he most certainly would have come under serious question! Where would he be today?

The Mayor, along with some councilors has stated repeatedly that they to this day cannot get answers to some of there questions – but they are then being asked to accept and approve a budget with a 5% - 3% increase?

I do not know the Superintendent, but if she is opting out of her agreement at this point in time both the Board of Ed & the City Council have a fiduciary responsibility to expedite this process now, not a year from now! Put in place a buyout & lets get someone in place who wants to represent Meriden and our Children.

Most citizens work ten hours a day and certainly do not come anywhere near the salary that the Superintendent makes! Let’s make this contract public.

Just because you may have a few strikes against you in the batters box, this doesn’t mean you take your bat and leave before the game is over. We need sound leadership today - leaders who want to work in the spirit of cooperation with the Mayor, Council & our citizens - not someone just filling a seat for a year? (Its not good for anyone the administration, our citizens or most importantly our children).

There is still time over the next few months to search out & secure a new Superintendent before the start of school, we already have a pool of applicants who applied for the principle position at Platt - which we should consider.

Let’s not forget that we have a number of educators in Meriden, who I’m sure can do a GREAT job, as our New Superintendent.

We also must comment the Board of Finance! The point needs to be communicated that the suggestions made by the City Manager and the Board of Finance do not reflect any layoffs or program eliminations, nor any school closings!

Lets not forget that the Mr. Kendzior & Mr. Tait did the job for Central Office", all they have to do is use this business model as an outline - along w/ adding the $450,000.00 Mr. Lamontagne elected to move (HIDE), at the end of the fiscal year (TEAM WORK AT ITS BEAT)

Central Office has elected to use our children as there personal shield (HOW SAD)! Definitely leadership I want in the fox hole watching my back.

I would make the following suggestions, to help get us all back on track;

I) Establish & Circulate A Questionnaire

a) An independent outside party needs to compile a very simple questionnaire to be distributated to anyone and everyone working within our school system (administrators, teachers, subs, part timers, custodial staff, everyone).
b) The survey should have no more that eight or ten simple question, along with a comments section. There is no question that our staff working on the front line is a wealth of knowledge. I know that there are a great deal of ideas and suggestions which we can learn from.
c) This questionnaire can be delivered in a few simple, no cost ways; E Mail, Copies, Pay checks, ect.
d) The questioner should be mailed back to an outside third party, to compile the results. (Meriden’s, We The People Party would be willing to compile the results at no cost, we would also invite the Record Journal to join us)
e) After which the results would be presented to Central Office, Board of Education, City Council and the Record Journal.

ll) A Forensic Auditing Committee, needs to be established

a) The purpose of a FAC is to have a community based, independent, organized structure and system to help school boards become more responsible in reviewing and analyzing all school procedures, practices, and policies to determine if they safeguard and maximize school revenues. This is the best means to achieve improved school performance without additional resources.
(Doctor Armand A. Fusco, out of Guilford would be an excellent resource)

The information presented are the facts and it is very unfair that the Mayor, City Manager, Council and the Board of Finance are coming under fire – all they’re doing is their job!

There is clearly a disconnect between Central Office its teachers, our citizens and city hall.

There is not one person in the City of Meriden who does not support education (Mayor-City Council-City Manager, our citizens) or our children, NOT ONE!

We have great teachers in Meriden, who care deeply about our students, we need more front line personal not layers of administrators.

We must embrace change in Meriden before we can move forward!

We must address this concern now, when it affects the most precious gift we have – OUR CHILDREN!

Bob Williams, Chairman, Meridens, “We The People Party”

[Charles E. Peevyhouse]

Now if Ghidini would post, we would have all our wannbe politicans in the forum.

[eds]

Actually, Bob, I support efficient education. Effective and efficient are entirely different things, yes? So then how can our BOE become efficient while maintaining its effectiveness. Right now I don't see the effectiveness of their approach to education nor do I see any justification for why the budget is efficient as it is. I would be happy to pay more taxes to support an efficient and effective educational system. However, I do not see that justification yet. I would say that perhaps it does exist, it just isn't clear to me. I think if the taxpayers were presented with a clearer understanding of the money and the reasoning behind increases, the public would have more buy-in to what is necessary to run Meriden Public Schools. I think right now, as you say, people are all for education. But I think what people are saying and asking is "why". Why in this day and age of people having to make their own personal budgets more efficient, does the school system simply ask for more money without making the hard decisions necessary to keep education effective, efficient, and affordable to the taxpayers. Right now, it seems to me that BOE simply says, "Give us more, or else" and that approach does not bode well with taxpayer buy-in. We need to make the case for increases and that hasn't happened yet, as far I can understand.

[whalers44]

yes, i agree that we need someone to personally go in and audit the BOE. Also, when i was a youngster some 50 plus years ago, we had class sizes of 40-45 kids in elementary school and we all learned effectively. The teachers had control of the class and everyone learned. Today, the teachers need to be examined and i will bet that 25-40 percent will fail the grade. At the same time parents have to take control at home. I remember also spending 2 plus hours at home doing home work or learning the things i got wrong in school from my mother....but if half the teachers today worked in the real world, they would not make it.....

[cherrybarbs]

By whalers44 “we need someone to personally go in and audit the BOE’ Until this happens, they can cry for money all they what. I say put the P.T.O.’S in charge, their only ones who seem to care about Meriden students and the taxpayers who have to pay for this!

[cherrybarbs]

The B.O.E. possibility of taking over Edison Middle School ,they can’t even manage the ones they got now,give it back to the State!

[madundertaker]

Actually, Bob, I support efficient education. Effective and efficient are entirely different things, yes? So then how can our BOE become efficient while maintaining its effectiveness. Right now I don't see the effectiveness of their approach to education nor do I see any justification for why the budget is efficient as it is. I would be happy to pay more taxes to support an efficient and effective educational system. However, I do not see that justification yet. I would say that perhaps it does exist, it just isn't clear to me. I think if the taxpayers were presented with a clearer understanding of the money and the reasoning behind increases, the public would have more buy-in to what is necessary to run Meriden Public Schools. I think right now, as you say, people are all for education. But I think what people are saying and asking is "why". Why in this day and age of people having to make their own personal budgets more efficient, does the school system simply ask for more money without making the hard decisions necessary to keep education effective, efficient, and affordable to the taxpayers. Right now, it seems to me that BOE simply says, "Give us more, or else" and that approach does not bode well with taxpayer buy-in. We need to make the case for increases and that hasn't happened yet, as far I can understand.

Good to have you back. We need some inteligance here.

[cherrybarbs]

Another study for our schools either knock them down or build new ones or they can keep doing patch work at millions of dollars and hope the roof doesn’t leak like at the new Lincoln middle school. How about this, it costs 11,000 to 20,000+ per student and in private schools it costs about 5 to $8,000 per student. Let’s give tax credits or vouchers to parents and let them decided what’s best for their children.

[alwaysright]

Another study for our schools either knock them down or build new ones or they can keep doing patch work at millions of dollars and hope the roof doesn’t leak like at the new Lincoln middle school. How about this, it costs 11,000 to 20,000+ per student and in private schools it costs about 5 to $8,000 per student. Let’s give tax credits or vouchers to parents and let them decided what’s best for their children.


You must be referring to religeous schools, which do not require the teachers to be CT certified! Cheshire Academy and Choate are much higher than 8 g's.

[cherrybarbs]

The B.O.E wants 5.9 increase, city hall will give them about 3 or 4% this why they can say to the voters blame city hall we ask for 5.9% and city hall can say we stood up for the taxpayers, we only gave 4% this is how the game is played. The going rate for teachers is $73,000 plus $18,000 for benefits but the worst economic times are yet to come, the teachers can’t take a wage freeze, plus how dare the BOE give themselves a pay raises when we now have 187 foreclosed homes in Meriden and taxpayers who have pay for this one big corrupted system are losing their jobs left & right!

[alwaysright]

I say keep the gifted and talented programs, buy books, take care of the low level learners and cut all the sports.

[Meridenborn]

I say keep the gifted and talented programs, buy books, take care of the low level learners and cut all the sports.

If you cut the sports that's when "concerned" citizens come out in droves, cut anything else and they usually don't give a s___.
How's that for caring about their kids education? Cut the sports, let's see the torches and pitchforks come out!

[RC12L4]

If you cut the sports that's when "concerned" citizens come out in droves, cut anything else and they usually don't give a s___.
How's that for caring about their kids education? Cut the sports, let's see the torches and pitchforks come out!

Whens the last time 1000 people paid $5 a head to watch a school debate? For most schools a successful sports program equates to more money for the school.

[alwaysright]

no high school match gets 1000 people- maybe a thanksgiving game now and then, CUT SPORTS

[Meridenborn]

no high school match gets 1000 people- maybe a thanksgiving game now and then, CUT SPORTS

Never liked jocks anyway...They turn into people like Walt Shamock...one way.

[cherrybarbs]

“If you cut the sports that's when "concerned" citizens come out in droves” you must mean the parents in come out in droves and say don’t cut, don’t cut I’ll pay more in taxes, think of the children. Yes the B.O.E. loves to play that card too! Gaffey is speaking tonight at the B.O.E. I hope a lot of taxpayers come and make him feel welcome, with [resign now] posters in hand!

[Meridenborn]

“If you cut the sports that's when "concerned" citizens come out in droves” you must mean the parents in come out in droves and say don’t cut, don’t cut I’ll pay more in taxes, think of the children. Yes the B.O.E. loves to play that card too! Gaffey is speaking tonight at the B.O.E. I hope a lot of taxpayers come and make him feel welcome, with [resign now] posters in hand!

That's what I meant, sports are everything to these knuckleheads. Cut sports and they freak-out. Cut history, geography, math, or reading and they stay home watching sports or some dumb game show.

As to Gaffey, as a former ardent supporter of his, I really don't want to hear what he has to say anymore. He owes the state and his constituents an apology, then he can resign.

[Snakebite]

Obviously the pendilum has swung too far. Wages and benefits are out of whack with reality. People in the private sector get similar wages and whoa, you get 2 weeks vacations after a year of employment.

Start adding up the weeks during the year, days during the year, summers off.
Where in the world did the politicians let this happen, squarely on the backs of taxpayers.

There may have been a day when wages were low due to only working a 185 days, but no more.

[cherrybarbs]

Absolutely, at what point does it become, what’s in it for me and not what's the best interest of the children. We have a lot great teachers in Meriden and they want to speak out, but cant because of the bureaucracy at the local, state and federal level.

[Snakebite]

Just wanted to knock that WTP nonsense off the screen.

Plus,
I just heard the Union is requesting Ground Hog Day as another day off.
Since all other important days are taken, GHD for all.

[cherrybarbs]

That wouldn’t surprise us if true, but the top administration should take a 20% pay cut and the teachers should take a wage freeze. But one thing that would really help is, give parents the option to send their kids to private school. If it cost the B.O.E $10,000 to $50,000 to teach each kid, then only make sense to give parents vouchers to send their kids a to a private school of their choice. That would not only save millions of $ but would lower the class room size too.

[Jakie19]

cherrybulbs...no wonder no one takes you or your party seriously. You sit around a come up with ridiculous ideas such as "...should take a 20% wage cut."
I'd like to see your boss tell you to take a 20% wage cut...not possible because I'll bet you don't work, and are on some type of entitlement program! Have you ever heard of a contract. How do you think that would hold up in court? Also, you seem to be so in tune with the educational system, how much would the vouchers be, and where would they be used. Do you have a clue as to how much a private education costs? What private school are you suggesting? Your very good at throwing out ideas that lack substance or plans. If your going to make a suggestion, show the facts and numbers and how it will work. Typical of a wtp leader to just throw stuff out with zero information to support the idea/plan. I know you will not answer the questions I've posed, because you never do. Keep putting out your ideas as a wtp platform and you might even get e republican elected. I guess I'm not surprised your own party hasn't censored you and your ideas, but their just as...

[MeridenMatt]

The B.O.E wants 5.9 increase, city hall will give them about 3 or 4% this why they can say to the voters blame city hall we ask for 5.9% and city hall can say we stood up for the taxpayers, we only gave 4% this is how the game is played. The going rate for teachers is $73,000 plus $18,000 for benefits but the worst economic times are yet to come, the teachers can’t take a wage freeze, plus how dare the BOE give themselves a pay raises when we now have 187 foreclosed homes in Meriden and taxpayers who have pay for this one big corrupted system are losing their jobs left & right!

Where did you come up with "the going rate for teachers is $73,000"?? Have you seen the teachers pay scale? A masters level teacher starts at $46,773. Seriously Cherrybarbs, you really need to check your facts before posting.
42

[Jim N]

Where did you come up with "the going rate for teachers is $73,000"?? Have you seen the teachers pay scale? A masters level teacher starts at $46,773. Seriously Cherrybarbs, you really need to check your facts before posting.
42
For a part time 180 day a year job babysitting they're probably the most over paid people on the planet.

[MeridenMatt]

You're out of your mind. Would you want to spend 6 hours a day in a classroom with with 25-30 kids? I think teachers are probably the most underpaid people on the planet.

[herzovet]

Reluctantly, in response to JimN's juvenile, sophomoric generalization of teachers - I believe JimN should thank a teacher, instead of degrading these hard working individuals - otherwise he would be unable to read and write and contribute his drivel on this Forum.
Being a new poster - I'm astonished at some of the 'trash' that regularly is posted on the RJ Forums.
I must admit, at times it is amusing - other times just a bunch of garbage by those who take time to post here, however offer nothing to address the problems they are upset with - if their energy was directed to fix an issue - it would be better spent.
Thanks for reading my opinion.

[Jim N]

Reluctantly, in response to JimN's juvenile, sophomoric generalization of teachers - I believe JimN should thank a teacher, instead of degrading these hard working individuals - otherwise he would be unable to read and write and contribute his drivel on this Forum.
Being a new poster - I'm astonished at some of the 'trash' that regularly is posted on the RJ Forums.
I must admit, at times it is amusing - other times just a bunch of garbage by those who take time to post here, however offer nothing to address the problems they are upset with - if their energy was directed to fix an issue - it would be better spent.
Thanks for reading my opinion.
I do thank the teachers I had back in the day when they did educate.
I stand by my statements of todays teachers. Kids can't make change in stores, can't spell, can't think they are not educated. If they ask to many questions that are above the "teachers" ability to answer they are then called problem kids and put on drugs to "calm them down" when they are probably just intelligent kids who are bored with having to deal with teachers who can't teach and if the teachers can teach they have to teach down to the dumbest kids in the class.
I also have 2 teachers in my family a sister and cousin and they agree with my assesment of the "new breed" of teachers I call babysitters, overpaid at that.

[herzovet]

JimN - you don't get it - you blame students for not learning on the new breed of teacher - let's get real here an get to the real root of the problem, the student and his/her family. I work in a place that is one of the main thoroughfares to Maloney High School and am amazed on how many students going to school are carrying NO BOOKS. so, I guess they are not doing the mandated homework. What about their parents? What do they say? Do they even know what is expected from students these days. On school open house/parent's nights the only ones who show up are parents of children who are doing well - parents of the 'no bookers' could care less about their offsprings education and if the parents don't care, why should the student.
You can have the best teacher in the world working their heart out and if they are forced to work with essentially a rock or other inanimate object - how can anyone expect any positive results?
Don't want to get in a pi##ing match here, but facts are facts.

[factsonly06450]

I do thank the teachers I had back in the day when they did educate.
I stand by my statements of todays teachers. Kids can't make change in stores, can't spell, can't think they are not educated. If they ask to many questions that are above the "teachers" ability to answer they are then called problem kids and put on drugs to "calm them down" when they are probably just intelligent kids who are bored with having to deal with teachers who can't teach and if the teachers can teach they have to teach down to the dumbest kids in the class.
I also have 2 teachers in my family a sister and cousin and they agree with my assesment of the "new breed" of teachers I call babysitters, overpaid at that.

If you are going to criticize teachers, you might want to use an apostrophe in "today's", "too" instead of "to", fewer quotation marks and more commas and periods.

[Jim N]

JimN - you don't get it - you blame students for not learning on the new breed of teacher - let's get real here an get to the real root of the problem, the student and his/her family. I work in a place that is one of the main thoroughfares to Maloney High School and am amazed on how many students going to school are carrying NO BOOKS. so, I guess they are not doing the mandated homework. What about their parents? What do they say? Do they even know what is expected from students these days. On school open house/parent's nights the only ones who show up are parents of children who are doing well - parents of the 'no bookers' could care less about their offsprings education and if the parents don't care, why should the student.
You can have the best teacher in the world working their heart out and if they are forced to work with essentially a rock or other inanimate object - how can anyone expect any positive results?
Don't want to get in a pi##ing match here, but facts are facts.
Don't take the fun out of the forum by being right.
Of course a big part of the problem is the kids and parents all being brain dead ( think I just did a post on that). How ever remember whatever passes for teachers now are the same kids you saw walking past your house just a few years ago. Think they've really changed into intelliegent people? I don't.
It's pretty much society as a whole going down the toilet.
When we have morons teaching morons where do you think we're going?

[Snakebite]

Its interesting how everyone thinks their own occupation is hard and others think it isn't. Human nature, I guess.

[Jim N]

If you are going to criticize teachers, you might want to use an apostrophe in "today's", "too" instead of "to", fewer quotation marks and more commas and periods.
Never said I was an A student.

[pibblegrl]

When we have morons teaching morons where do you think we're going?

I don't think there are that many morons running to become teachers...I mean, if they couldn't be bothered to work in school when they were students why on Earth would do you think they would put themselves through however much more school to go work in a school.:confused:

We have a lot of good teachers, and having volunteered a lot at school, I completely agree that parents really need to get more involved. The teachers are responsible for teaching a large number of students, many of whom have limited or no support at home, and they have to do this with limited resources. If more parents took even a small amount of time every day showing their kids that they are interested in their children's schooling and want them to do well, more kids would be more concerned with doing well and behaving well in school. If their parents don't care, or don't show that they care, that is what the kids will emulate. It starts and ends with the parents.
I think we should make school year round and Meriden really needs to get programs back for advanced students. My daughter is a 4th grader, and she works at a 7th grade level in most subjects...They stopped our advanced programs (which I had been told started in 4th grade) sometime last school year I think. So my daughter still hasn't got a lot where she can work at her level..her teachers have always done their best to challenge her and provide her with opportunities to do things in the school that will let her help others so she isn't sitting bored in the classroom all day, and I appreciate their efforts on her behalf...it has not been easy for her teachers because she is so far ahead and the teachers have had to spend so much time with kids who are way behind. A lot of those kids who are behind wouldn't be if their parents would just take some time to go over homework with them and read with them. It really doesn't take much.

[Jakie19]

..."never said I was an A student." Wow, the understatement of the year! Besides the spelling and grammar, did you ever take a class in having a clue? Must have scored below average in that one too! "Society as a whole going down the toilet"...no, just this forum! Man, you can get some laughs on this forum!

[Jim N]

..."never said I was an A student." Wow, the understatement of the year! Besides the spelling and grammar, did you ever take a class in having a clue? Must have scored below average in that one too! "Society as a whole going down the toilet"...no, just this forum! Man, you can get some laughs on this forum!
I have a clue. People just don't like to hear you have to work for things. Society is becoming nothing more then a bunch of lazy crack addicts on welfare expecting everyone else to take care of them. Abortion and birth control, vasectomies, whatever should be mandatory for anyone bum on welfare. If they're too lazy to work to provide for themselves why should hardworking taxpayers have to pay for whatever they whelp. If someone wants to be on welfare they should have to live in dormitories eat in cafeterias and don't gripe about it so what if it humiliates them it's their choice and decision not to do anything to better their lives. You want something better work for it like a real human being not a sponging parasite.
See in my day in school they taught us to think and to work and be proud of a good days work. Now they can't conceive of ideas other then what someone tells them, and a good days work that's for fools we have welfare.
I could probably argue for your point of supporting worthless people better then you could, however I'd rather support decent human beings not welfare slugs.

[Jakie19]

Nice job turning your rants about teachers into another rant about welfare. Man, you are an angry dude that needs to get a hobby. From the sounds of it, you are "closer to the tomb than to the womb", thank goodness. Bet you voted for Obama...yeah alwaysright! I hear they selling clues, 4 for a dollar at CVS. You might want to pick up a few dollars worth.

[Jim N]

Nice job turning your rants about teachers into another rant about welfare. Man, you are an angry dude that needs to get a hobby. From the sounds of it, you are "closer to the tomb than to the womb", thank goodness. Bet you voted for Obama...yeah alwaysright! I hear they selling clues, 4 for a dollar at CVS. You might want to pick up a few dollars worth.
You can have all the bargain basement clues you want from CVS I deal with hardworking American Taxpayers you know the ones who made this country great until it was taken over crack addict welfare scum. And if Obama, people like you and welfare scum are what's in the future I'm glad I'm closer to the grave.

[catnap]

why don't we just say the american public school systems is seriously flawed, out-dated and way over due for a complete overhaul. We still (we teachers, parents, taxpayers) still work with an educational system that is based on an age when most families were farmers.

I survived raising kids and getting thru the meriden School systems...there's some real lemons there but some real peaches too, but it was not easy. And some of the things I went thru and my kids went thru, should not have been.

bottom line - imo - the entire american public school system is utterly broken. Teachers can't teach and children cannot learn in a broken outdated system.

there's no going back - only forward.

[RC12L4]

why don't we just say the american public school systems is seriously flawed, out-dated and way over due for a complete overhaul. We still (we teachers, parents, taxpayers) still work with an educational system that is based on an age when most families were farmers.

I survived raising kids and getting thru the meriden School systems...there's some real lemons there but some real peaches too, but it was not easy. And some of the things I went thru and my kids went thru, should not have been.

bottom line - imo - the entire american public school system is utterly broken. Teachers can't teach and children cannot learn in a broken outdated system.

there's no going back - only forward.

My cousin is a teacher, I asked him what he thought the major problems are. He stated:

1) Teachers are not allowed to "teach", all they do today is prepare students for tests.

2) Lazy students

3) Uninvolved parents who view school as daycare more than a place for their children to learn.

[catnap]

My cousin is a teacher, I asked him what he thought the major problems are. He stated:

1) Teachers are not allowed to "teach", all they do today is prepare students for tests.

2) Lazy students

3) Uninvolved parents who view school as daycare more than a place for their children to learn.

Teachers clearly are being strangled by state and federally mandated tests to deteremine performance measures. what appears to be laziness in students might certainly be connected to poor teaching by teachers who...see number one, and the so-called uninvolved parents is blanket generalization that the "systems" uses to explain ....see number two.

and round and round it goes.

[RC12L4]

Teachers clearly are being strangled by state and federally mandated tests to deteremine performance measures. what appears to be laziness in students might certainly be connected to poor teaching by teachers who...see number one, and the so-called uninvolved parents is blanket generalization that the "systems" uses to explain ....see number two.

and round and round it goes.

My cousin handed his entire class the test with all the answers on Monday, he let all his students take it home for the week and study it. Come Friday 3 kids failed, Monday morning he received letters from the two of the childrens parents stating in no uncertain terms that the test the kids failed was just too hard. He replied by sending a copy of the "study guide" he sent home with them on Money with a note attached

"Even when I gave them all the answers 4 days prior to the test?"

He never heard back.

[iwantwallingfordbetter]

My cousin handed his entire class the test with all the answers on Monday, he let all his students take it home for the week and study it. Come Friday 3 kids failed, Monday morning he received letters from the two of the childrens parents stating in no uncertain terms that the test the kids failed was just too hard. He replied by sending a copy of the "study guide" he sent home with them on Money with a note attached

"Even when I gave them all the answers 4 days prior to the test?"

He never heard back.



just shows you school is to hard for todays kids....

[Jim N]

just shows you school is to hard for todays kids....
I know it's too tough for them, they're suppose to learn to read and write at least by a 3rd grade level to graduate high school. 5th or 6th for college. Life is so tough. They may actually have to go to work someday, like when their parents die or welfare goes broke. Who are they going to whine to then.

[flatrat]

I know it's too tough for them, they're suppose to learn to read and write at least by a 3rd grade level to graduate high school. 5th or 6th for college. Life is so tough. They may actually have to go to work someday, like when their parents die or welfare goes broke. Who are they going to whine to then.

And you guys were all complaining about baby boomers?

Remember today's ignorant uneducated child is tomorrows Republican base.
Looks like a bright future for Fox news.

[RC12L4]

And you guys were all complaining about baby boomers?

Remember today's ignorant uneducated child is tomorrows Republican base.
Looks like a bright future for Fox news.

Ah...uhh.....ahh...ummmm..................BUUUSSSH HHHHHH!!!!