Hangman's noose

[BillCarson436]

Hello...

There's a story out of Stratford where a " Goul " hanging from a noose
in a Halloween display has upset an African American Pastor to where
the owner removed it from his display to placate this " defender of the
noose." Have you people ever seen a Western where they HANG horse
thieves ? ( I use the phrase " you people " because the offended Pastor
used those same words in his quote to the press " my people " )

Give me a break

They already have claimed the outrage over the Confederate Flag
as their sole property. A flag that a half a million Americans died
under defending their homelands. (I don't buy the Slavery theme
as the overwhelming cause of that war although it's " politicaly
correct to do so. )


Since when is any use of a hangmans noose the exclusive offense to
black people. They hanged Saddam.... no outrage over that... In the
opening sequence of the movie Pirates of the Caribbean there are 3
pirates hanging from gallows (skeletons ). No outrage there. People
have been hung for a thousand years... and NOT all people of color.

Yes... I understand the symbolism of it... but to make a big deal over
a Halloween scene.... sad. Thank god there was no Ghost in a white
sheet !!!!!!

What's next...outrage over Santa saying Ho Ho Ho ???

[collie]

The Civil War WAS fought over slavery - the Confederates clearly stated that was the case in their constitution. If you do not accepte that the civil war was fought in order for the confederacy to continue their practice of slavery, then it is no wonder you do not associate nooses with the lynching of African Americans in this country. You, sir, are what is called an apologist.

[rapuda]

I'm not going to get involved with the race issue here.
What I will say about the noose though, is that I think it goes too far for Halloween. I know Halloween is all about candy and scary things, but displaying a body hanging from a noose only portrays DEATH to me. If you want to go to the Trail of Terror or the Haunted Mansion and pay to be scared, then seeing those items are your choice. But to display something hanging from a tree with a noose around its neck for all to see is wrong. You don't have a choice there.
I wouldn't want that in my neighborhood.

[eds]

Slavery was only one part of the Civil War. In fact, the majority of Southerners did not own slaves. Only the wealthy owned slaves and the wealthy made it a political issue because they had the means to do so.

The right of the states to control their own destiny free of federal intrusion was the core issue of the Civil War. The Civil War was fought for the right of a state to secede from the Union and the right of a state for autonomy from the federal government. Simply put, the real issue was state's rights as it has always been since the Revolution. In the case of the Civil War the issue that sparked the war was the abolishment of slavery at the federal level. The majority of people would not fight a war over slavery much the same way the people of today would not fight a war over oil rights. Oil rights of today and slavery of yesterday were issues only the wealthy found important. In the case of oil rights, the overriding theme common folks can rally behind is terrorism striking at the very core of American society and threatning democracy's very existence. That is what common people can rally behind.

Even today, states are trying to assert their autonomy over the federal government. For example, the Federal government outlawed cannabis and yet California specifically allows it. The No Child Left Behind Act was mandated at the Federal level and states rebuked it as an unfunded mandate and are even now fighting it in court. We can substitute these issues for slavery and nothing else changes. State's rights are at the core of the matter.


The North would not allow the South to secede in order for the Union and for democracy to survive. Sound familiar? The survival of democracy has been a recurrent theme in the Vietnam Conflict, the Persian Gulf War, the War in Iraq, and both World Wars. The North would not let the South ruin the American form of democracy by seceding. That's the cause that Northerners rallied behind, not slavery directly. Liberating slaves was just another underlying reason and not the primary reason Northerners joined the Union forces. The same way today people are not joining up to fight a war over oil rights, or the liberation of the Iraqi people. The unifying reason for the war in Iraq is being sold as fighting terrorism and fighting for the survival of America against terrorism.

The South wanted to have their own say and be totally autonomous. They felt they should be able to secede from the Union and form their own country. They wanted to have slaves and not have any federal government tell them otherwise. So much like the Colonists before them who did not want Britian and King George telling them what they could and could not do, the Southerners decided to secede and form their own country. And thus we have the Civil War.

So while slavery was indeed a cause over which the Civil War was fought, though, it was not the one major issue the people of today make it out to be. Yes, slavery is repulsive in much the same way certain cultures trounce on the civil rights of women today. But in keeping with American behavior, the North felt it warranted to go to war to protect and inject Northern democratic ideals onto the Southern people.

This is no different than today. We felt it necessary to insert our American ideals onto the Iraqi people who today are fighting their own civil war. The Iraqi people never wanted a democracy. They, meaning the shias, only wanted to oust Sadaam because he was a Sunni. Then the Shias could institute their own brand of government. We obliged their first request. Only then, when the Shias went to install their own government, did we overstay our welcome and branded Iraq a democracy. The Iraqi's in the street were not cheering for democracy, they were cheering for the fall of Sadaam and end of his tyranny. We ousted Sadaam and then we should have left and not forced democracy down the Iraqi's throats. As an aside, we stayed for other more tactical reasons as I have mentioned. However, the forcing of democracy upon the Iraqi people was somewhat of a consequence of war so-to-speak. To the victor go the spoils as it were.

[CMNSNC]

Forcing Democracy on any country is the same as forcing a particular religion on the citizens of any country. I believe the average Iraqi citizen doesn't care one way or another who is in charge of their government as long as they are left in peace to persue a decent living.
Getting Saddam out was the main goal as far as they were concerned. Once that was accomplished one could see from the news broadcasts they were more than happy to get on with their lives without having to worry about someone kicking in their doors and hauling them away into the night.
The biggest problem I see is the tribal mentality of the middle east and all that that entails. And yes, that also includes Israel. Each tribe has it's own agenda and would like for the rest to conform to it's dogma. This battle has been going on for thousands of years and there is no end in sight! Should the United States stick around for the next thousand years to see this through?
The present Iraqi government is only too happy to have us hang around and do their job for them. Their highest government officials can't even be in the country at the same time. Most of them are off to other countries doing only God knows what when they should be at home trying to get their country running efficiently again. (New York Times editorial 10/24/07)
We should give them an ultimatum. Get back to Iraq and start fixing your own problems because we are going to leave by __/__/__ (fill in the blanks)!
Speaking of tribes, is this country heading down that long sad trail? Lately it seem that we are becoming as divided as Iraq. We have become as tribal as any other third world country. Let's drop the hyphenation. When you put American after your ancestors country you are telling yourself that you would rather be whatever than an American!

[BillCarson436]

Hello...

Reading the responses I don't feel moved to add anything further
other than ...

It was a full Halloween display, not a solitary display of a hanging as
the family in question has been doing for years.

and second, to state that slavery was the reason that the SOLDIERS
fought that war is just untrue and a re-write of history.

I didn't make it a race issue as a position, unless you believe that only
people of ONE race have been subjected to hanging as a means of
execution. No more than the Jewish race own's crucifixion and
claims it to be their personal outrage, bemoaning "sins of the past" at
every sighting of a man nailed to a cross!

In closing...

Ed seems to have a grasp on the true history of that event. Nice
add to the post.

[eds]

Regarding the hyphenated American.

When one becomes a citizen of a country, any country, that is where one's allegiance should be. Dual citizens are the only true hyphenated people. They spread their allegiance between countries.

[Eastside Bill]

Back to the topic of this thread, I don't understand why the family would keep the hanging figure up if it was perceived as offensive. Why would they keep it up knowing they were deeply offending some of their neighbors? With all the news about nooses being used to try to intimidate, why on earth didn't they take it down the moment they realized it was such incredibly bad taste?

[BillCarson436]

Hello...

They didn't keep it up.... as soon as the Pastor went PUBLIC with his
"outrage" and brought in the local news,the family took it down.

I wish more people would react with more... "outrage " over George W
Bush than a silly lawn display.

[eds]

It's called freedom of speech. Offensive or not. I find all Halloween displays offensive and yet I let even my wife display one at our house.

In this country one has the right to be offensive. I find it incredibly draconian for people to be arrested for hanging a noose on their very own property or car. It would be different if they hung the noose on someone else's house.

We as Americans in general preach tolerance. Tolerance goes both ways. We need to tolerate the beliefs of others whether we agree with them or not no matter how offensive they might be.

We have a saying, "En boca cerrado, no entran moscas". Literally it means a closed mouth catches no flies. It usually means to keep your mouth shut for whatever reason, gossip, constantly talking, etc. And in this case also to stop worrying about what one's neighbor might be doing.

I have seen many hanging stuffed dummies on front lawns and up until now no one even batted an eye. No all of a sudden people connect a symbol to hate and they want it removed. No one should be forced to do that. It's legal to be a racist in this country.

When my grandparents came to this country during WWII they came from El Salvador. There, if one said something someone did not like, they sent someone to kill you. We need to uphold the First Amendment in all cases. Like I said, were it to be hung on another's property that would be different. But this is not the case.